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Author Topic: A defective X32, no big deal, but strange  (Read 14599 times)

Bob Leonard

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A defective X32, no big deal, but strange
« on: January 08, 2013, 04:07:19 AM »

Who would have ever thought we might see a defective X32. No big deal here but the defect is strange to say the least.
 
From another site......

"After only 26 gigs under her belt my X32 is defective. In the middle of a show I pushed a business card under the console. I touched the board and pickup it up by about an inch. Thats when all hell broke lose.
Comps and Gates go into full protect mode and once the console is moved the gates stay in full so no audio passes or registers on the meters. I quickly restarted the board and everything was back to normal. Now at the end of my gig I pulled out all the XLRs and firewire and switched the edison cable. Same problem. But this time i had no audience so I let the board just do its thing. After about 30 seconds the L:R main buss makes the most awful noise and it was Full LEFT then Full RIGHT.
I took videos of all of this and am taking it back to the place I bought it.... "
not happy...


http://youtu.be/aYX0HxAPiP4

http://youtu.be/iD16b3_UPzM
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 05:21:47 PM by Bob Leonard »
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Jim Turner

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Re: A defective X32
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 04:53:18 AM »

Who would have ever thought we might see a defective X32.
 
From another site......

"After only 26 gigs under her belt my X32 is defective. In the middle of a show I pushed a business card under the console. I touched the board and pickup it up by about an inch. Thats when all hell broke lose.
Comps and Gates go into full protect mode and once the console is moved the gates stay in full so no audio passes or registers on the meters. I quickly restarted the board and everything was back to normal. Now at the end of my gig I pulled out all the XLRs and firewire and switched the edison cable. Same problem. But this time i had no audience so I let the board just do its thing. After about 30 seconds the L:R main buss makes the most awful noise and it was Full LEFT then Full RIGHT.
I took videos of all of this and am taking it back to the place I bought it.... "
not happy...


http://youtu.be/aYX0HxAPiP4

http://youtu.be/iD16b3_UPzM

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« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 05:03:18 AM by cyriljamesturner »
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kristianjohnsen

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Re: A defective X32
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 08:23:32 AM »

Who would have ever thought we might see a defective X32.
 

I suspect they've sold "a few", too...
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Greg_Cameron

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Re: A defective X32
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 09:20:19 AM »

Well, at least they overnighted a new desk from Uli's Las Vegas depot as soon as they saw the post.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: A defective X32
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 10:19:09 AM »

Who would have ever thought we might see a defective X32.
 
From another site......

"After only 26 gigs under her belt my X32 is defective. In the middle of a show I pushed a business card under the console. I touched the board and pickup it up by about an inch. Thats when all hell broke lose.
Comps and Gates go into full protect mode and once the console is moved the gates stay in full so no audio passes or registers on the meters. I quickly restarted the board and everything was back to normal. Now at the end of my gig I pulled out all the XLRs and firewire and switched the edison cable. Same problem. But this time i had no audience so I let the board just do its thing. After about 30 seconds the L:R main buss makes the most awful noise and it was Full LEFT then Full RIGHT.
I took videos of all of this and am taking it back to the place I bought it.... "
not happy...


http://youtu.be/aYX0HxAPiP4

http://youtu.be/iD16b3_UPzM

I am not sure what your point is, and I really don't enjoy defending "them", but they have reportedly shipped 20k units, so unless you have reports of thousands of such failures, this is a non-event.

So far the only apparent design/build flaw I've read about, relates to an internal cable that picks up noise and steps on the noise floor, if not dressed properly away from clock noise. I would take the wild guess that they have corrected this in new builds.

So it appears to have survived the initial roll-out. The vote is still out on how well they hold up in regular use, but we'll learn about that over time.

 JR


 
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: A defective X32
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 10:36:15 AM »

I am not sure what your point is, and I really don't enjoy defending "them", but they have reportedly shipped 20k units, so unless you have reports of thousands of such failures, this is a non-event.

So far the only apparent design/build flaw I've read about, relates to an internal cable that picks up noise and steps on the noise floor, if not dressed properly away from clock noise. I would take the wild guess that they have corrected this in new builds.

So it appears to have survived the initial roll-out. The vote is still out on how well they hold up in regular use, but we'll learn about that over time.

 JR

John, I know it's been mentioned before but I really think you deserve a medal for the grace and restraint you've shown during this whole X32 craze. In an industry that is typically full of fan-bois and haters, your ability to put aside bias and previous affiliations is nothing short of commendable.

That said, this particular instance is kind of old news Bob. There have been a few reported failures, Behringer seems to be pretty aggressive in righting these situations. No idea what percentage of total volume these failures represent, I don't think it would be a very high number.

The future is going to be interesting...
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Mark Long

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Re: A defective X32
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2013, 11:17:51 AM »

John, I know it's been mentioned before but I really think you deserve a medal for the grace and restraint you've shown during this whole X32 craze. In an industry that is typically full of fan-bois and haters, your ability to put aside bias and previous affiliations is nothing short of commendable.
Well said.
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brian maddox

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Re: A defective X32
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2013, 11:45:00 AM »

i ordered two x32s a few months ago.  one had a bad scribble strip led that i ignored and then it developed an intermittent problem in one of the group bank faders.

i contacted the retailer i purchased it from and it was replaced.

this was a non-event as far as i was concerned.  it's a brand-new product.  i had a minor issue.  it was taken care of.  my retailer told me mine was the first one they've had any issue with and i believe him.  my opinion of this console remains unchanged.  that is, it is a great value for the money that may hold up well over time or may not.  we won't know until there has been, well, actual time.  i've currently got 3 Yamaha 02/r's [first generation] and 4 Yamaha 01v96s in constant use.  they all have thousands of hours on them.  and most of them have minor issues.  they've still been excellent values.  we'll see how the x32 fares in comparison.

and my kudos to JR as well.  his reasoned responses to this products rollout have been a very welcome perspective provider.  thanks for that....
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: A defective X32
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2013, 11:58:56 AM »

JR doesn't blush, but you guys can stop now.

I'm not dead yet so save the kind words for my eulogy, and no hurry on that.  :-)

JR
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Chris Clark

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Re: A defective X32
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 12:01:45 PM »

I have the same feelings as others - This is one out of what, thousands? (Obviously I don't have exact numbers). Add to that the apparent response from Behringer as soon as it was brought to their attention, I'd say this is a non-issue at this time.

I wonder about failure rates for other manufacturers... With Behringer a large number of people aren't as fair as JR and have been looking left-and-right for any failure they can find and then exploit with the X32... A smaller company which is just starting out a new direct-contact support system as well... Other manufacturers (Yamaha, Presonus, Roland, etc) didn't exactly have the "stigma" that Behringer did from the start, what's to say those mfgrs haven't had more failures per-cap than Behringer but we don't hear about them as much because more users of the "more expensive" crowd start out by contacting the mfgr first instead of going to Youtube video before giving the mfgr a chance to fix anything?

Just my $0.02... And before you ask no I'm not a Behringer fanboy (I cringed every time my employer got another piece of equipment with that name on it) but I am excited to give this a shot because it should mark at least a partial change in Behringer's history.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: A defective X32
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2013, 12:35:42 PM »

I have the same feelings as others - This is one out of what, thousands? (Obviously I don't have exact numbers). Add to that the apparent response from Behringer as soon as it was brought to their attention, I'd say this is a non-issue at this time.

I wonder about failure rates for other manufacturers... With Behringer a large number of people aren't as fair as JR and have been looking left-and-right for any failure they can find and then exploit with the X32... A smaller company which is just starting out a new direct-contact support system as well... Other manufacturers (Yamaha, Presonus, Roland, etc) didn't exactly have the "stigma" that Behringer did from the start, what's to say those mfgrs haven't had more failures per-cap than Behringer but we don't hear about them as much because more users of the "more expensive" crowd start out by contacting the mfgr first instead of going to Youtube video before giving the mfgr a chance to fix anything?
There is reason that Behringer has a "stigma" and they earned that by past behavior.

Add to that, any success in the value area caries with it negativity associated with the low priced product segment (trust me to know about this).

As I've noted before, if they had major manufacturing or build quality problems they would not have accumulated the war chest that allowed them to buy the premium badges, or invest in their production equipment.

Every day is a new opportunity to be a new improved company to new customers, the old timers (like me) in most cases are a lost cause so not worth the effort to try to convert.

This is nothing new and winners get to write their own history. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to keep them honest, but this doesn't require being nasty or deceptive, even if the PR spin is hard to swallow sometimes. In the area of merchandising exaggeration and hyperbole are expected.
Quote

Just my $0.02... And before you ask no I'm not a Behringer fanboy (I cringed every time my employer got another piece of equipment with that name on it) but I am excited to give this a shot because it should mark at least a partial change in Behringer's history.

I am just keeping it real... I have a somewhat more developed perspective about how things work inside the business, so i try to separate fact from myth (aka PR) when it is dominating a conversation.

JR
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Bob Leonard

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Re: A defective X32
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2013, 01:31:09 PM »

My intent here was not to pound the shit out of Uli and crew. My intent was to point to a failure that I thought was pretty strange to say the least. So in my book, end of subject as I have not seen any huge number of complaints or hate letters concerning the X32. I would have to wonder if anyone else had seen this issue or if it's a one of a kind. OK, you can all refuckinglax now.
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Lance Richens

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Re: A defective X32, no big deal, but strange
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2013, 09:39:04 PM »

FWIW, my x32 has the same issue. Something is obviously loose inside. Chase had Fedex pick it up yesterday & it's on it's way to Vegas.....
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Mark Phillips

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Re: A defective X32, no big deal, but strange
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2013, 10:26:26 PM »

I had a flying fader issue and it was addressed promptly, no deal breaker and I am very relaxed. Great service so far.
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Chris Clark

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Re: A defective X32, no big deal, but strange
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2013, 10:37:46 AM »

I apologize if my comments came across this way, but it was not my intention to seem as though I was accusing anyone here of pushing an anti-Behringer agenda.

I agree JR, Behringer does have a stigma about them, and I can't read your mind nor have I been in the business nearly long enough to know what all those reasons are, but I have done enough reading and have some experience to see some reasons that I gave them that stigma early on.

I do have a legitimate wonder as to whether the difference in both Behringer's previous reliability and their typical clientele is skewing the perceived failure rates of the X32 versus the perceived failure rates of other digital consoles for the reasons I mentioned before, and this was brought on by what I take issue with most in the post Bob brought to our attention - I can understand the poster's frustration with a malfunction, but instead of contacting Behringer about the issue (and this is where I draw my comparison because I feel like most users of brands like Yamaha, Roland, even Midas, would contact the mfgrs first) he makes a very aggravated sounding video about the issue.

I'm not saying the video is uncalled for, but under different circumstances it would show less of a... for lack of a better term, distaste... for Behringer. Perhaps if he had contacted Behringer first and secured the RMA or whatnot and THEN made a video bringing the issue to our attention as more of a heads up than the "I hated Behringer before, and now this proves why" vibe that I get from the video and post.

Again, my $0.02 about the video.. I'm going to have to stop commenting - I'm running out of money!
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: A defective X32, no big deal, but strange
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2013, 11:17:55 AM »

I apologize if my comments came across this way, but it was not my intention to seem as though I was accusing anyone here of pushing an anti-Behringer agenda.

I agree JR, Behringer does have a stigma about them, and I can't read your mind nor have I been in the business nearly long enough to know what all those reasons are, but I have done enough reading and have some experience to see some reasons that I gave them that stigma early on.
My reasons are not secret, but no I will not swing at that slow fat pitch over the middle of the plate. I don't feel like teaching history to disinterested students this morning.
Quote
I do have a legitimate wonder as to whether the difference in both Behringer's previous reliability and their typical clientele is skewing the perceived failure rates of the X32 versus the perceived failure rates of other digital consoles
It is too soon for the x32 to have a reliability record, but reports of early/infant failures seem modest if they have shipped as many units as has been reported.
Quote
for the reasons I mentioned before, and this was brought on by what I take issue with most in the post Bob brought to our attention - I can understand the poster's frustration with a malfunction, but instead of contacting Behringer about the issue (and this is where I draw my comparison because I feel like most users of brands like Yamaha, Roland, even Midas, would contact the mfgrs first) he makes a very aggravated sounding video about the issue.
Behringer is not the only company where customers take their grievances to the Internet. Uli has brought some of the recent traffic on himself with his personal charm campaign. Some customers correctly perceive they will get attention by being a squeaky wheel on a public forum where they think Uli might be watching. His service representatives surely are.

Some customers just take on a victim mentality and want to sing "poor pitiful me" in public.
Quote
I'm not saying the video is uncalled for, but under different circumstances it would show less of a... for lack of a better term, distaste... for Behringer. Perhaps if he had contacted Behringer first and secured the RMA or whatnot and THEN made a video bringing the issue to our attention as more of a heads up than the "I hated Behringer before, and now this proves why" vibe that I get from the video and post.
Fir the record I did not watch the video and have no desire to. perhaps it was about getting attention for the poster. All of our relationships are influenced by previous experience. Some companies have lost significant sales to the X32, in an already weak market, so there are surely lots of bad feeling going around. Many competitors want to see Uli stumble (I am speculating, but it is a pretty safe guess). 
Quote
Again, my $0.02 about the video.. I'm going to have to stop commenting - I'm running out of money!
I'm not running out of opinions.

JR

PS: I would have never heard about this video if folks didn't complain about it here. Some things are better ignored, I still am.. 
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Mike Diack

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Re: A defective X32
« Reply #16 on: January 14, 2013, 05:24:15 PM »

My intent here was not to pound the shit out of Uli and crew. My intent was to point to a failure that I thought was pretty strange to say the least. So in my book, end of subject as I have not seen any huge number of complaints or hate letters concerning the X32. I would have to wonder if anyone else had seen this issue or if it's a one of a kind. OK, you can all refuckinglax now.
Had a defective Vi6 today. I guess paying 20 times as much for your digimixer doesn't guarantee perfection :-)
 
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Bob Leonard

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Re: A defective X32, no big deal, but strange
« Reply #17 on: January 14, 2013, 05:59:43 PM »

Nothing is immune to failure regardless of price. Is it under warranty, and how long will it take to get parts and fix it. Those are the real life questions. Power distribution board??
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Greg_Cameron

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Re: A defective X32
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2013, 06:04:03 PM »

Had a defective Vi6 today. I guess paying 20 times as much for your digimixer doesn't guarantee perfection :-)

Apple used to use those same connectors in their NuBus based Macs. They were pretty decent connectors but it was possible to have a bent pin double up in a socket hole with another. Was this one of those instances or was it a downstream short causing too much current to pass though the connector?
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Mike Diack

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Re: A defective X32
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2013, 07:18:17 PM »

Apple used to use those same connectors in their NuBus based Macs. They were pretty decent connectors but it was possible to have a bent pin double up in a socket hole with another. Was this one of those instances or was it a downstream short causing too much current to pass though the connector?
The pins in the burned up male connector were all dead straight so I don't think bending/doubling was an issue. When I fitted the new backplane & power distro board, I checked the cards one at a time and none were defective so I'm guessing contamination within the board itself gradually turning into a conductive path (seen this befiore in UK BSS/C-Audio stuff - same PCB maker?) - any guesses as to cause simply that - guesses.
All fixed.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: A defective X32, no big deal, but strange
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2013, 09:07:12 PM »

I have seen ICs fail as a dead short and low ESR electrolytic capacitors short also.

I've seen foil shorts on PCBs when brand new, but not lately, and not after spending some time in service.

JR
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Bob Leonard

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Re: A defective X32, no big deal, but strange
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2013, 10:18:59 PM »

Those connectors are still pretty common. I see them more often than not in large system where there 8-16-32 processors and the procs are added using a daughterboard.
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Re: A defective X32, no big deal, but strange
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2013, 11:48:52 PM »

Those connectors are still pretty common. I see them more often than not in large system where there 8-16-32 processors and the procs are added using a daughterboard.

The one thing they didn't excel at was holding computer (NuBus) cards in the slots on the Quadra 950 Macs. Avid video editing stations and the original ProTools systems used those 5 slot tower Macs. The weight of the cards in the slots would cause them to to come out part way over time with the towers upright in a vertical stance. Part of the problem was the low friction connector itself and part of the problem was Apple's lame design using ill fitting plastic tabs to hold the card's L bracket/connector plate in position. The tabs didn't hold much in place and they broke off pretty easy. The best way to run those Macs with larger boards in them was to lay them on their sides so gravity would keep things in place ;)
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Re: A defective X32, no big deal, but strange
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2013, 10:46:25 AM »

I have been intrigued by the X32, and have been reading reports to see how it is holding up, and looking forward to seeing how it hold up down the road. I know one company I have freelanced for just bought 4 of them for their smaller shows. So I poked over to the YouTube videos from TexasLiveSound, who had the issue with the X32. In the comments section of one of the videos:

Comments (TexasLiveSound)

TexasLiveSound 3 weeks ago:
Just received my new X32 from FedEx. Thank you to everyone at Behringer. Very great customer service. Very great customer service.
 
Mike D

TexasLiveSound 4 weeks ago:
So Behringer just called my cell. They noticed my video of the defective X32 and are overnighting Texas Live Sound a brand new console. That they are going over with a fine tooth comb before sending out. Well played Behringer.

Joe Sanborn 1 month ago:
Hi Mike, My apologies for the issue you are having. Issues with the X32 are very rare, but we treat any issue quickly and want to make sure you are back up and running ASAP. As it is Sunday, I have contacted Chase McKnight in our Las Vegas facility to take care of you first thing Monday morning. His direct number is: 702-371-0830 I have also sent you a PM with my cell number to get this taken care of ASAP. Best Joe Sanborn Manager, Channel Marketing MUSIC Group BEHRINGER
 
___

Yeah there is a stigma to Behringer, but I do get the sense they are trying to move past that and do things better. The fact that they personally called this guy to resolve the issue, to overnight a board, and to post the response they did I think does speak to this, that they are trying to do right with this console. I don't think there is a manufacturer out there that hasn't had issues in the past with products. The issue comes when the manufacturer doesn't address it, or the issue is so catastrophic that they can't come back from it to undo the damage caused.
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Scott Jordan

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Re: A defective X32, no big deal, but strange
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2013, 10:46:25 AM »


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