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[David Parker]

Try all the subs coupled together on one side for this space

probably a very good idea. Considering the layout when they have the drapes drawn, I probably would do well to have only one stack. On one side of the stage, that stack would easily cover the odd shaped seating area. We tend to do things by habit, stacks on each side, it looks right. quite often we probably would do better with one stack. 25 years ago a friend attended a peavey conference and they suggested that most of the time one stack was better.

[Douglas R. Allen]

an interesting venue I work about once a month, it's an outdoor setting,  on an elevated wooden deck, the deck is 1" thick treated lumber (actual thickness, not nominal) 5" wide planks with small gaps between them, about 20" off the ground. Thatched roof. When it's cold or raining, they have a heavy clear plastic curtain that encloses the area. The venue eats bass. I use the same exact setup there that I used everywhere with this band, subs on either side of the stage, about 25' apart. Power alley is not in the middle. It has a power alley on either side, about 25% off center. Kinda like a Y 20' in front of the stage. This rig has a tight power alley right in the middle everywhere else I set it up. All my cabling is the same every time, so it's not a polarity issue. Sub amp is run mono (not bridged), so it's not getting crossed up ahead of the amp. Again, it's the same setup in every venue. Also, the sub amp was clipping on one side ahead of the other. Almost makes me wonder if the sub amp is having issues. It's not very old and it's a QSC RMX 4050hd.

You say "room", but in your first post said it was outdoors. Which is it?

It may be that there is a reflection creating a phantom center source that is then combining with the 2 subs to make 2 power allys. The power ally is just a big node of a low frequency comb filter, it will happen off axis as well, but the strongest node is usually centered. When you add reflections more peaks and nulls appear, in more complex patterns as frequency goes up.

Mac

Was the building something like this?
I work there once and awhile. They have the roll down plastic that covers about 1/3 the way down the building in case of rain. If they put down just one side just to block the wind all heck breaks loose. Even just a few less on one side changes everything in the bass department. As another has mentioned I end up putting the subs center and its better.

Douglas R. Allen

[David Parker]

Was the building something like this?
I work there once and awhile. They have the roll down plastic that covers about 1/3 the way down the building in case of rain. If they put down just one side just to block the wind all heck breaks loose. Even just a few less on one side changes everything in the bass department. As another has mentioned I end up putting the subs center and its better.

Douglas R. Allen

so it messes with the bass when they let the plastic down? Doesn't seem like the plastic would affect the bass, but in my case, something did, and that was the only change. The venue where I was as much worse than that. The stage was at a 45 degree angle to the plastic on one side, because only half the seating area is enclosed with the plastic. And this plastic goes all the way to the ground.

[Luke Geis]

I could see that the plastic draping could make it possible to create a weird phase issue with the refracting waves, but i wouldn't bet the farm on it? I would do what another has suggested and place both subs together. I have been deploying this approach for that past several gigs and I gotta say I am very happy with it. It seems silly at first and you will get some questions about your decision making, but the reality is that it simply is better. The people further away from the subs will have a little less power from them and those closer may have a little too much, but at least it's can be a calculated difference. When you have the classic sub on each side of the stage, you have a coverage pattern that's all over the board. Some get a ton, some get none and others get a fair amount........

Since I have gone to all subs together either on one side of the stage or centered on the stage if space allows, I have had better bass response and a more even coverage than I have ever before. The only downside is that those further away will have a little less bass.

[David Parker]

I could see that the plastic draping could make it possible to create a weird phase issue with the refracting waves, but i wouldn't bet the farm on it? I would do what another has suggested and place both subs together. I have been deploying this approach for that past several gigs and I gotta say I am very happy with it. It seems silly at first and you will get some questions about your decision making, but the reality is that it simply is better. The people further away from the subs will have a little less power from them and those closer may have a little too much, but at least it's can be a calculated difference. When you have the classic sub on each side of the stage, you have a coverage pattern that's all over the board. Some get a ton, some get none and others get a fair amount........

Since I have gone to all subs together either on one side of the stage or centered on the stage if space allows, I have had better bass response and a more even coverage than I have ever before. The only downside is that those further away will have a little less bass.

I've done this in the past. It doesn't work everywhere for several reasons. It very well may in this venue. Because of the layout I'm thinking one stack, all the speakers on one side, since the band isn't centered up on the audience anyway. When they pull the drapes at this place it cuts out 1/3 of the seating area, all off one side.

[Art Welter]

an interesting venue I work about once a month, it's an outdoor setting,  on an elevated wooden deck, the deck is 1" thick treated lumber (actual thickness, not nominal) 5" wide planks with small gaps between them, about 20" off the ground. Thatched roof. When it's cold or raining, they have a heavy clear plastic curtain that encloses the area. The venue eats bass.

David,

You have described a bass trap (the gaps in the stage lumber are ports, as well as any open ends or sides) with a variable tuning (a heavy clear plastic curtain that encloses the area).

The frequencies affected by the variable bass trap are determined by the tuning (open areas and their depth compared to enclosed volume) and proximity (wavelength) of the subs to the bass trap.
Lots of variables that can radically change the sound with relatively small set up changes.

Have fun experimenting!

Art

[David Parker]

David,

You have described a bass trap (the gaps in the stage lumber are ports, as well as any open ends or sides) with a variable tuning (a heavy clear plastic curtain that encloses the area).

The frequencies affected by the variable bass trap are determined by the tuning (open areas and their depth compared to enclosed volume) and proximity (wavelength) of the subs to the bass trap.
Lots of variables that can radically change the sound with relatively small set up changes.

Have fun experimenting!

Art

with the drapes drawn, this place is open air with a thatched roof. It eats bass, have to turn the sub amps up a bit vs. other venues. I usually don't have to turn the bass up with this rig when it's totally open air on something solid. Live and learn. The problem is that with most of the venues I work, they are open and have customers when we are loading in, so experimentation is not an option. However I load it in is how I have to run in. The option is to load in differently on repeat visits.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

with the drapes drawn, this place is open air with a thatched roof. It eats bass, have to turn the sub amps up a bit vs. other venues. I usually don't have to turn the bass up with this rig when it's totally open air on something solid. Live and learn. The problem is that with most of the venues I work, they are open and have customers when we are loading in, so experimentation is not an option. However I load it in is how I have to run in. The option is to load in differently on repeat visits.

I think you're taking the "enclosed area" a bit lightly, simply assuming that it's either indoors or outdoors.  I believe Art has the gist of it.  You're dealing with boundaries whether they're hard walls or heavy reflective curtaining, the floor and the roof regardless of its composition.  The space enclosed under the stage does indeed count in the overall equation.  You've got all these variables reacting to each other.

That's what's happening.  How you deal with it is up to you.

[David Parker]

I think you're taking the "enclosed area" a bit lightly, simply assuming that it's either indoors or outdoors.  I believe Art has the gist of it.  You're dealing with boundaries whether they're hard walls or heavy reflective curtaining, the floor and the roof regardless of its composition.  The space enclosed under the stage does indeed count in the overall equation.  You've got all these variables reacting to each other.

That's what's happening.  How you deal with it is up to you.

Well, I'm on my way! I've realized I have a problem and I've received a lot of good options to try next time there!

[ProSoundWeb Community]