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Author Topic: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?  (Read 8687 times)

Adam Ellsworth

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LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« on: January 02, 2013, 05:52:17 PM »

My NYE show was of course going very well - a Martini-bar-like venue I've never worked before surprised me with some of the best acoustics in town, and the band requested much more lighting than I usually bring to a club show. It looked and sounded great!

So of course a member of the tux-clad crowd spilled almost a full glass of champagne on my LS9-32 and walked away while I stared in shock - never saw who. The faders were messed up and in retrospect I should have immediately unplugged it, but I tried to keep the show going by parking the console on an empty layer and mixing via Tablet (http://www.airfader.com) for about 5 minutes before all audio quietly dropped out. (There was only 15 minutes left in the show... I patched the PA to the monitor board and the band finished the last two songs.)

I took it home, took it apart while still wet, and cleaned everything I could with distilled water and swabs... the faders are all shot (The board's over 4 years old, so I already had two that wouldn't calibrate... now I have 27) but I fear a couple of the input boards are ruined by small but poorly-placed champagne drops. Champagne clearly corrodes the crap out of connectors.

Believe it or not, this is the only real incident I've had in 8+ years of weekly gigging. I have equipment insurance... do I try to get it fixed somewhere and then submit a claim and see what happens? Should I just pay to fix it and not risk getting my insurance cancelled? This probably happens to most people at some point, what do you guys do?
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Bob Leonard

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2013, 06:17:49 PM »

I don't know why you think your insurance will be cancelled, but the sooner you make the claim the better off you'll be. Take what they give you, buy a new board, and sell this one for parts / as is.
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2013, 06:45:24 PM »

That sucks... you can dress them up like penguins but they sill act like silly monkeys.
-----
Since you ran it till it crapped itself, the odds are it may need more than a thorough cleaning. Champagne doesn't strike me as very corrosive, more like sticky/gummy. 

If you have insurance, why not use it...  Isn't stuff like this what you pay insurance for?

JR

PS: It might be worth seeing what the repair estimate is. Do they total consoles? 
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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2013, 07:08:47 PM »

In my ideal world, you'd simply box up the remains and send them to the promoter with the bill for a replacement.
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Adam Ellsworth

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2013, 05:06:16 AM »

I don't know why you think your insurance will be cancelled, but the sooner you make the claim the better off you'll be.

Somewhere along the way, a long time ago, I read something someone had posted that basically suggested equipment insurance was basically good for "catastrophic" losses (like, losing your whole rig due to theft, vehicle accident, etc) because if you filed a claim or two for minor losses, they wouldn't offer to renew it, and it's hard to find equipment insurance at a decent rate. For whatever reason, that stuck.

...but that may not have been sound advice. Hence, I asked, and glad I did. I could probably replace all the faders myself and maybe take a stab at the board I think is bad, but perhaps my best course of action is to just get a quote for repair from an authorized center, submit that to insurance, and see what happens.

(I could use this opportunity to move up to a CL1, but my niche and needs don't really support that.)
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Adam Ellsworth

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2013, 05:08:09 AM »

In my ideal world, you'd simply box up the remains and send them to the promoter with the bill for a replacement.

In my case, it might not be great PR (or karma) to take "Make A Wish Foundation" to court over a champagne spill. ;-)
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Bob Leonard

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2013, 08:40:49 AM »

Call them and make a wish for a replacement board. At least feel them out in a polite way.
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Mike Christy

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 08:51:15 AM »

In my case, it might not be great PR (or karma) to take "Make A Wish Foundation" to court over a champagne spill. ;-)

They may be able to afford it.

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Samuel Rees

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LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 10:27:35 AM »

Did you have a contract with them that said anything about damages to your gear?
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frank kayser

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2013, 11:02:52 AM »

I don't know why you think your insurance will be cancelled, but the sooner you make the claim the better off you'll be. Take what they give you, buy a new board, and sell this one for parts / as is.
IMO, Bob has hit the nail on the head.  An 8+ year old console, with problems already, and a spill like that, personally I'd never fully trust the console again.   
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 01:36:15 PM »

In my case, it might not be great PR (or karma) to take "Make A Wish Foundation" to court over a champagne spill. ;-)

They have insurance for every event they put on.  They're a 100% legit organization.  It wouldn't hurt to contact your client and tell them what happened.  The worst thing is you're right back where you are now.

You'll need a repair estimate (you're gonna fix it anyway, right?) to start the ball rolling.

The types of clients that try to weasel out of repairs/damages - bars and night clubs (and Raytheon).  We had an owner actually say "you should know that beer spills are normal wear and tear in this business, and I don't pay for normal wear and tear."  Someone (not me) then peed on his floor, saying "people lose bladder control when they consume alcohol, it's normal in this business."  I reported the club for health code violations (hey, there's urine on there floor, I think the restrooms are leaking...).  They were closed for 2 weeks while repairing their dishwashing station and restrooms (had to upgrade to wheel chair accessible).  We never got paid for the beer damage but it was fun to drive past and see the "grand re-opening soon!" banner.  The $300 repair turned into about $20,000 in lost business for the club.

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2013, 02:04:15 PM »

They have insurance for every event they put on.  They're a 100% legit organization.  It wouldn't hurt to contact your client and tell them what happened.  The worst thing is you're right back where you are now.

You'll need a repair estimate (you're gonna fix it anyway, right?) to start the ball rolling.

The types of clients that try to weasel out of repairs/damages - bars and night clubs (and Raytheon).  We had an owner actually say "you should know that beer spills are normal wear and tear in this business, and I don't pay for normal wear and tear."  Someone (not me) then peed on his floor, saying "people lose bladder control when they consume alcohol, it's normal in this business."  I reported the club for health code violations (hey, there's urine on there floor, I think the restrooms are leaking...).  They were closed for 2 weeks while repairing their dishwashing station and restrooms (had to upgrade to wheel chair accessible).  We never got paid for the beer damage but it was fun to drive past and see the "grand re-opening soon!" banner.  The $300 repair turned into about $20,000 in lost business for the club.

1.  Instant Karma (just add urine)

OR

2.  Urine for it now......
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Jonathan Johnson

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 06:33:42 PM »

They have insurance for every event they put on.  They're a 100% legit organization.  It wouldn't hurt to contact your client and tell them what happened.  The worst thing is you're right back where you are now.

I think this is the best advice so far. The liability is that of the promoter, in this case, Make-A-Wish. Their liability insurance -- which they are likely required to have to rent facilities for their functions and fundraisers -- should pay out; there should be no impact to the organization or the people they benefit.

If you are unable to get compensation through those channels, then you turn to your insurance company. Chances are your insurance company will backcharge the organization's insurance anyway. Insurance almost always seeks compensation from the person or organization of ultimate liability.

As for Make-A-Wish, the teenage son of a friend of mine was a beneficiary of MAW -- he got a home recording studio! They testify that MAW is a first-class organization.
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Adam Ellsworth

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2013, 12:59:45 AM »

The liability is that of the promoter, in this case, Make-A-Wish.

This is definitely not the direction I expected this to go. I would expect this to fall under "cost of doing business" and not be the responsibility of venue, band, or promoter.

Ultimately, in this case the band is the one that paid me, but I didn't have a contract with anyone. So I would feel kinda silly asking someone else to cover the damages, because I doubt I have any grounds to do so.
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Ryan C. Davis

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 01:35:27 AM »

This is definitely not the direction I expected this to go. I would expect this to fall under "cost of doing business" and not be the responsibility of venue, band, or promoter.

Ultimately, in this case the band is the one that paid me, but I didn't have a contract with anyone. So I would feel kinda silly asking someone else to cover the damages, because I doubt I have any grounds to do so.

You might be surprised at what you can get just by asking. Seriously, I wouldn't foo foo all this advice so quickly. What's the worst thing that can happen, MAW says "no, you're on your own"? Toughen up and write and email, hell, even pick up the phone and call them. That is, unless you are just dying to pay for all this yourself then I'd say just keep on doing what you're doing.
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Adam Ellsworth

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2013, 01:50:32 AM »

I wouldn't foo foo all this advice so quickly.

Oh, I don't mean to give that impression, I appreciate all this feedback very much... I'm actually just mulling this all over because I'm not too rushed for once. This was my last show of a busy few weeks but now Jan/Feb is by far my slowest time and I have other consoles, though this is my best and favorite.

If nothing else, a good reminder to use contracts so there's no ambiguity. It's a tiny market up here, and most of my business comes from a few friends I've worked with for years and always pay on time. I usually only have a date, location, and invoice. But something more serious will surely come along someday, and I do realize that without a contract it could be ugly for all.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 01:53:44 AM by Adam Ellsworth »
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2013, 02:28:48 AM »

Oh, I don't mean to give that impression, I appreciate all this feedback very much... I'm actually just mulling this all over because I'm not too rushed for once. This was my last show of a busy few weeks but now Jan/Feb is by far my slowest time and I have other consoles, though this is my best and favorite.

If nothing else, a good reminder to use contracts so there's no ambiguity. It's a tiny market up here, and most of my business comes from a few friends I've worked with for years and always pay on time. I usually only have a date, location, and invoice. But something more serious will surely come along someday, and I do realize that without a contract it could be ugly for all.

It could still be ugly, even with a contract.  What it wouldn't be, is a surprise when the bill came.

You sustained damages that you should be compensated for, but I understand your reluctance to pursue this.  Without a clearly defined "responsible party", you'd be left to go after the guy who spilled the drink.  Good luck with that.

Whether or not this is a cost of doing business depends on how depreciated out the mixer was, how much repairs will cost, to what level the mixer is being restored and your financial tolerance for unrecoverable expenses.
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Bill Hinds

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2013, 08:36:05 AM »

My NYE show was of course going very well - a Martini-bar-like venue I've never worked before surprised me with some of the best acoustics in town, and the band requested much more lighting than I usually bring to a club show. It looked and sounded great!

So of course a member of the tux-clad crowd spilled almost a full glass of champagne on my LS9-32 and walked away while I stared in shock - never saw who. The faders were messed up and in retrospect I should have immediately unplugged it, but I tried to keep the show going by parking the console on an empty layer and mixing via Tablet (http://www.airfader.com) for about 5 minutes before all audio quietly dropped out. (There was only 15 minutes left in the show... I patched the PA to the monitor board and the band finished the last two songs.)

Was the spill just on the faders or did it get into the upper sections of the console and into the CPU area?

I took it home, took it apart while still wet, and cleaned everything I could with distilled water and swabs... the faders are all shot (The board's over 4 years old, so I already had two that wouldn't calibrate... now I have 27) but I fear a couple of the input boards are ruined by small but poorly-placed champagne drops. Champagne clearly corrodes the crap out of connectors.

Believe it or not, this is the only real incident I've had in 8+ years of weekly gigging. I have equipment insurance... do I try to get it fixed somewhere and then submit a claim and see what happens? Should I just pay to fix it and not risk getting my insurance cancelled? This probably happens to most people at some point, what do you guys do?
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Adam Ellsworth

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Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2013, 04:49:55 PM »

Just an epilogue to this...

Yamaha came back and said the console was probably un-fixable... the risk of additional failure later would be high and they would not guarantee the work. I contacted my insurance company, and ordered a new console right away. There were a few phone calls back and forth to verify the claim... and then two weeks later a check showed up for the cost of replacement minus my $1500 deductible. I've read horror stories in some forums about dealing with equipment claims, but all things considered my experience was fairly positive. Props to United Agencies in Burbank, CA.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: LS9 had too much champagne - insurance claim?
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2013, 04:49:55 PM »


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