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Author Topic: Bass rig to compete with 4 Soundbridge 7218SWX's???  (Read 11404 times)

Tim Weaver

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Re: Bass rig to compete with 4 Soundbridge 7218SWX's???
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2012, 12:07:43 PM »

I'm looking to build a rig that compare's in size and output to 4 Soundbridge 7218SWX cabinets powered by a Powersoft K6.  I'm more sound quality oriented than I am for overall output so I'm not nessisarily looking to beat these cabinets spl but I need close numbers.  I plan on using the same amp and one of the requirements of this rig is that it runs on 20A (just the subs).  The two other cabinets that I've come up with so far are the SB1000z and TH118.  The SB1000z is almost exactly the same size and weight but EAW's numbers are far from Soundbrige in comparison tho how EAW uses numbers maybe not.  I've not heard the TH118 ever and not heard the SB1000z in a fair comparison to the 7218SWX.  The times I've heard the SB1000's there were many more than 4.  My budget for this is 14-15,000 and I'd like to hear thoughts on other cabinet's and possibly amps I could use in this price range.

Thanks -Mark

If the SB Xyon subs are all you are comparing too, then just about anything will do a better job. I would suggest buying 6 SRX 728's and another amp. That way you'll have more, better sounding, subs that are actually on riders these days. Plus you'll be able to make 2 different systems out of it.

If you want to get something real, then by all means go for the TH118's. They work very well. Also look at JTR, Bassmaxx, and JBL's higher end offerings.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Bass rig to compete with 4 Soundbridge 7218SWX's???
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2012, 01:27:24 PM »

Four TH-minis powered at rated continuous level would have 3 dB more output than a single TH-118 (140 dB vs. 137 dB) above 50 Hz.
Below 50 Hz, the TH-118 would rule.
If the TH-118 is as loud as my Keystone sub which uses the same driver (and happens to be 45" high, like the OP is looking for) it would easily go louder than the SB1000Z.
You are correct. 

The thing that is SO often overlooked is the actual freq response.  Again you cannot look at a single number and get an idea of the whole performance.

For example at 40Hz (not all that low) you are looking more like 8 TH minis for each TH118.  And lower than that the number gets even higher.

So when looking at subs, here is the "procedure" I suggest.

1:  How LOW do you REALLY need to go.  A good way to tell is to look at the actual freq in the type of music of interest.

2: How LOUD do you really need to go?  Think continuous at a particular distance-then add some overhead.

3: THEN you start looking at sound quality-price etc.

If a sub doesn't go as low as you need it to-then it doesn't matter how good of a deal it is.

If it doesn't get loud enough-it doesn't matter the deal.

People will argue with me-but if you can't hear it-it doesn't matter how good it sounds (at a closer distance).

Physical size is another issue that must be considered.  Let's look at the TH mini vs TH118 issue. At any freq-the TH minis will take up more physical space in a vehicle.  At the lower freq- a whole lot more.  So you need a bigger vehicle (possible more cost).  They would also weigh more.

Also due to the impedance, you will need more amps to run the TH minis (more costs).  And more speaker cables (more cost).  More trips to the truck and back (more labor/hassle).

And finally the 4 TH minis cost a good bit more than a single TH118.

So the TH118 is actually the cheaper of the cabinets (for a given SPL).  So even if you got a great deal on some minis (and the cost was the same) they would not go as low and be more hassle than a single louder cabinet.

This is not saying anything bad about the mini-if you want to put your sub in the front seat-the mini wins.  If you have to carry it up stairs-the mini wins.  If you are trying to hide the sub-the mini wins and so forth.

It is just another tool for the toolbox.  Not that one is better than another-but rather better for a particular usage.

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Bass rig to compete with 4 Soundbridge 7218SWX's???
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2012, 02:04:39 PM »

You are correct. 

The thing that is SO often overlooked is the actual freq response.  Again you cannot look at a single number and get an idea of the whole performance.

For example at 40Hz (not all that low) you are looking more like 8 TH minis for each TH118.  And lower than that the number gets even higher.

So when looking at subs, here is the "procedure" I suggest.

1:  How LOW do you REALLY need to go.  A good way to tell is to look at the actual freq in the type of music of interest.

2: How LOUD do you really need to go?  Think continuous at a particular distance-then add some overhead.

3: THEN you start looking at sound quality-price etc.

If a sub doesn't go as low as you need it to-then it doesn't matter how good of a deal it is.

If it doesn't get loud enough-it doesn't matter the deal.

People will argue with me-but if you can't hear it-it doesn't matter how good it sounds (at a closer distance).

Physical size is another issue that must be considered.  Let's look at the TH mini vs TH118 issue. At any freq-the TH minis will take up more physical space in a vehicle.  At the lower freq- a whole lot more.  So you need a bigger vehicle (possible more cost).  They would also weigh more.

Also due to the impedance, you will need more amps to run the TH minis (more costs).  And more speaker cables (more cost).  More trips to the truck and back (more labor/hassle).

And finally the 4 TH minis cost a good bit more than a single TH118.

So the TH118 is actually the cheaper of the cabinets (for a given SPL).  So even if you got a great deal on some minis (and the cost was the same) they would not go as low and be more hassle than a single louder cabinet.

This is not saying anything bad about the mini-if you want to put your sub in the front seat-the mini wins.  If you have to carry it up stairs-the mini wins.  If you are trying to hide the sub-the mini wins and so forth.

It is just another tool for the toolbox.  Not that one is better than another-but rather better for a particular usage.

The TH-Mini also makes it possible to build directional sub arrays in places you might not be able to fit larger subs.  Again, a compromise - do you need pattern control over LF extension? 
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Bass rig to compete with 4 Soundbridge 7218SWX's???
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2012, 04:34:01 PM »

The TH-Mini also makes it possible to build directional sub arrays in places you might not be able to fit larger subs.  Again, a compromise - do you need pattern control over LF extension?
Here is a link to a large college basketball arena in which 4 x 4 element end fire arrays were used.  You have to scroll all the way down and then click on the photo that has the scoreboard in it to see them.

The idea is keep the bass energy out of the ceiling and "rolling around".

I have not heard it, but am told that it worked very well.

http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/portfolio/live-music-venues/butler-university-bulldogs/#slide2
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Mark J Snyder

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Re: Bass rig to compete with 4 Soundbridge 7218SWX's??? More questions.
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2012, 05:27:40 PM »

That is a very common mistake people make when looking at cabinets.

It is not so much "what it takes to power them properly to full power", but RATHER 'how much it takes to get to a certain SPL".

With a higher sensitivity cabinet, you can use a smaller amp and get just as loud.

Or if you were to take it the other way and say "How many cabinets and amps would it take of XYZ cabinet to  equal 4 Danley DBH218's on 2 K6 amps?

Then the picture starts to look very different.

TOTAL cost of ownership for a particular SPL and low freq response is what you should be looking at.  Not just a small piece of the pie.

Just because a loudspeaker can handle a certain wattage-does not mean you HAVE to use an amp that size.

When people ask what size amp I recommend-I usually say at least ONE watt.  For some cases this is enough (not usually-but yes it does happen and some people are happy with 1 or 2 watt amplifiers).  However in most cases they need something bigger.

Just because your cars speedometer goes to 120MPH do you always drive it that fast?

If you use the "I have to have an amp the size of the rated power", then we will also assume you never driver slower than 120MPH. 

Headroom is nice and sometimes needed. 

Just something to think about.

The system will be used for all types of music from bass heavy electronic to jam bands so I never thought of targeting an spl at a certain frequency.  The way I see it or at least how it worked with my last rig (EAW 460/400) was I had an amp on my subs that matched the watts of the cabinets so when I needed all they had doing electronic DJ's I was safely able to give them the full amp with compressed music.  With bands that much bass would have been too much even outdoors so they didn't get the full amp.  Therefore headroom on the amp for sub cabinets I don't see a need for and possibly a recipe for blown drivers.

I follow what your saying but also I'm not gonna buy a Ferrari if I never plan on taking it to the track once in awhile.

Also I would like to choose a cabinet now that I will stick with and build upon and hopefully someday use with line arrays.
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Mark J Snyder

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Re: Bass rig to compete with 4 Soundbridge 7218SWX's???
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2012, 05:55:28 PM »

If you want to compare or at least listen to both brands, I'm in pittsburgh. my partner has 8 xyon subs and I have 4 Danley Minis. Ivan can verify, I believe 4 TH-minis are equal to 1 TH-118???  I can Demo in our warehouse if you are interested.  I will also be just north of youngstown in February at yankee bootleggers with the Danleys if ya just want to hear. I have powersoft K3 or K6. Not sure if there are any th-118 in pittsburgh.

That's not really a comparison unless the spl is in the neighborhood of the 4 Xyons.  I've heard Impact's Xyon's plenty.  It would give me an idea of how a Danley cabinet sounds but that's about it.  Thanks for the offer tho.
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Mark J Snyder

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Re: Bass rig to compete with 4 Soundbridge 7218SWX's???
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2012, 06:04:46 PM »

If the SB Xyon subs are all you are comparing too, then just about anything will do a better job. I would suggest buying 6 SRX 728's and another amp. That way you'll have more, better sounding, subs that are actually on riders these days. Plus you'll be able to make 2 different systems out of it.

If you want to get something real, then by all means go for the TH118's. They work very well. Also look at JTR, Bassmaxx, and JBL's higher end offerings.

Thanks Tim.  This is the kind of answer I've been looking for.  I need new ideas on what other gear is out there that compares.  Those JBL's are tempting but being a discontinued product might make for buying more to add on in the future a problem.  I'll give those other manufacturers a look see.
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Jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney)

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Re: Bass rig to compete with 4 Soundbridge 7218SWX's??? More questions.
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2013, 09:14:17 AM »


Just because your cars speedometer goes to 120MPH do you always drive it that fast?


Yes.. #twinturbos
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Re: Bass rig to compete with 4 Soundbridge 7218SWX's??? More questions.
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2013, 09:14:17 AM »


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