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Author Topic: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?  (Read 28916 times)

Jim Baron

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #170 on: January 08, 2013, 08:26:55 am »

I am a 18 years experinced Service Agent for most of the Pro audio, video and lighting gear used in the industry. In my area there are much more M7CL and LS9 than any other brands and comparing the existent quantities, Avid SC48 with its blue screen (HDD failure) and A&H T112 with broken surface Switches or Main CPU flaws are more "common" somehow than the Yamaha's desks failures. Yamaha's primarily failure was 90% related to Fader worn out errors or defective Led diodes on the surface boards. Fader environment proof was corrected in the new generation of desks (2009) and available as drop-in spare/upgrade part for earlier models.

And there's one particular local Sound Co that has 2 M7CL desks since 2006 which have suffered every imaginable accident in the process of use or transporting from 220V ground loops, heavy rain (beer) or sun exposures, transporting truck flipping, riot flying bottles impacts and a lot of misuse. I've replaced it's Touch Panel (AST-104) 3 times for different reasons, one 10.4 Sharp LCD screen, repaired 10 input channels, half dozen of DA1 (OMNI Output) boards, bended or broken Rotary Encoder controls and even an USB Hub connectors and these desks are still running shows.

Now, in terms of overall sound quality and available resources, I like better the T112 V1.90 over the LS9 or M7CL.

Thank you for addressing the forum topic!
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Danny J. Avila

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #171 on: January 08, 2013, 08:46:48 am »

Thank you for addressing the forum topic!

Sorry Mr. Baron

I specifically said "I like better the T112 V1.90 over the LS9 or M7CL" because you've previously mentioned this choice options. PM5D (PM1D) and CL Series are way different stories.


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Jim Baron

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #172 on: January 08, 2013, 08:58:56 am »

Sorry Mr. Baron

I specifically said "I like better the T112 V1.90 over the LS9 or M7CL" because you've previously mentioned this choice options. PM5D (PM1D) and CL Series are way different stories.

That's cool.
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Craig Montgomery

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #173 on: January 10, 2013, 06:22:08 pm »

How is it "Asian" or "Japanese" to strive for linearity and accuracy in your preamps?  There may be something darker at work here, and I've heard it in person too.

When dudes want to hook their cheap external clock to the 1D and bitch about "Japanese preamps", somehow the show never ends up sounding very good.  Hmmm.

I don't know how a console or system sounds until I've mixed on it.  If I'm at a show and I like the output of the sound reinforcement system, I make some inferences:

1.  The content is good.
2.  There is a good system, well-tuned and deployed by:
3.  Good sound humans.
4.  The person in the big chair knows what they're doing.

Notice nowhere on that list is "boy, that console must have warm, punchy preamps."

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brian maddox

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #174 on: January 10, 2013, 07:26:11 pm »

I don't know how a console or system sounds until I've mixed on it.  If I'm at a show and I like the output of the sound reinforcement system, I make some inferences:

1.  The content is good.
2.  There is a good system, well-tuned and deployed by:
3.  Good sound humans.
4.  The person in the big chair knows what they're doing.

Notice nowhere on that list is "boy, that console must have warm, punchy preamps."

+11000

which is, i guess, still only 1.  but you get the idea....
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brian maddox
11brian.maddox11@gmail.com

'...do not trifle with affairs of dragons...

       ....for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup...'

Nick Pires

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #175 on: January 11, 2013, 09:41:05 am »

How is it "Asian" or "Japanese" to strive for linearity and accuracy in your preamps?  There may be something darker at work here, and I've heard it in person too.

When dudes want to hook their cheap external clock to the 1D and bitch about "Japanese preamps", somehow the show never ends up sounding very good.  Hmmm.

I don't know how a console or system sounds until I've mixed on it.  If I'm at a show and I like the output of the sound reinforcement system, I make some inferences:

1.  The content is good.
2.  There is a good system, well-tuned and deployed by:
3.  Good sound humans.
4.  The person in the big chair knows what they're doing.

Notice nowhere on that list is "boy, that console must have warm, punchy preamps."

Awesome.
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I'm not who I would be, if I wasn't who I am.

Christian Tepfer

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #176 on: January 11, 2013, 10:47:53 am »

How is it "Asian" or "Japanese" to strive for linearity and accuracy in your preamps?  There may be something darker at work here, and I've heard it in person too.

When dudes want to hook their cheap external clock to the 1D and bitch about "Japanese preamps", somehow the show never ends up sounding very good.  Hmmm.

I don't know how a console or system sounds until I've mixed on it.  If I'm at a show and I like the output of the sound reinforcement system, I make some inferences:

1.  The content is good.
2.  There is a good system, well-tuned and deployed by:
3.  Good sound humans.
4.  The person in the big chair knows what they're doing.

Notice nowhere on that list is "boy, that console must have warm, punchy preamps."
full acq

Sidenote:

There are very few mentions of side-by-side life sound comparisons of different desks in the same environment. Comparisons are almost always based on different gigs, so input signals and PA/room combinations and even the moods of the soundperson are different. Even when we would compare side-by-side we would have some variance in workflow on different desks.

Comparing 2 channels into different desks seem to bring up only marginal differences.

For me the big differences are in the workflow anyway. A console should not "sound" in any way, a signal flow without any processing should end up in the same signal as the source signal. In my experience most consoles are just fine in that regard. The same is true for preamps, I don't want my preamps to sound, they should amplify what's getting in linear, nothing more, nothing less.
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Christian Tepfer
christian at amanya dot de

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #177 on: January 11, 2013, 11:27:16 am »

full acq

Sidenote:

There are very few mentions of side-by-side life sound comparisons of different desks in the same environment. Comparisons are almost always based on different gigs, so input signals and PA/room combinations and even the moods of the soundperson are different. Even when we would compare side-by-side we would have some variance in workflow on different desks.

Comparing 2 channels into different desks seem to bring up only marginal differences.

For me the big differences are in the workflow anyway. A console should not "sound" in any way, a signal flow without any processing should end up in the same signal as the source signal. In my experience most consoles are just fine in that regard. The same is true for preamps, I don't want my preamps to sound, they should amplify what's getting in linear, nothing more, nothing less.

There was recently a direct console vs. console shootout performed up the road from me involving the X-32 vs some other digital platforms. I do not recall reading about huge audible differences, and didn't expect them.

They're consoles, not microphones.

JR
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Geri O'Neil

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #178 on: January 11, 2013, 11:59:06 am »

full acq

Sidenote:

There are very few mentions of side-by-side life sound comparisons of different desks in the same environment. Comparisons are almost always based on different gigs, so input signals and PA/room combinations and even the moods of the soundperson are different. Even when we would compare side-by-side we would have some variance in workflow on different desks.

Comparing 2 channels into different desks seem to bring up only marginal differences.

For me the big differences are in the workflow anyway. A console should not "sound" in any way, a signal flow without any processing should end up in the same signal as the source signal. In my experience most consoles are just fine in that regard. The same is true for preamps, I don't want my preamps to sound, they should amplify what's getting in linear, nothing more, nothing less.

In fact, I recently did just that.

I had our PM5D, the M7CL, the newly-aquired CL5, and the (borrowed) Behringer X32 in our shop all set up side-by-side with my Yamaha powered studio speakers (forgot the model, doesn't matter for this post) and spent a day listening to all of my favorite tunes in WAV format from my MacBook Pro with that cool little Peavey USB device used for getting balanced output from a notebook. I plan to do it all again soon, but with a borrowed SC48 along with the others.

And from what I've seen of peoples' reactions to this sort of activity over the many years I've been around here, there's no way in HELL I'm going to divulge what I perceived to be my findings of this little experiment. I satisfied my curiosity and that's all that matters. Except for a couple of "interesting observations", it just wasn't that big of a deal.

Geri O
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Why no love for the 'sound' of Yamaha digital consoles?
« Reply #179 on: January 11, 2013, 12:46:42 pm »

In fact, I recently did just that.

I had our PM5D, the M7CL, the newly-aquired CL5, and the (borrowed) Behringer X32 in our shop all set up side-by-side with my Yamaha powered studio speakers (forgot the model, doesn't matter for this post) and spent a day listening to all of my favorite tunes in WAV format from my MacBook Pro with that cool little Peavey USB device used for getting balanced output from a notebook. I plan to do it all again soon, but with a borrowed SC48 along with the others.

And from what I've seen of peoples' reactions to this sort of activity over the many years I've been around here, there's no way in HELL I'm going to divulge what I perceived to be my findings of this little experiment. I satisfied my curiosity and that's all that matters. Except for a couple of "interesting observations", it just wasn't that big of a deal.

Geri O

Geri, Geri, Geri...  any audiophool will tell you, using that Peavey interface in your signal path will discredit any serious listening test... That Meridian based design will slow down the digital audio to a southern drawl...  8)

But I am not an audiophool so rock on....  ;D

JR
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Tune it or don't play it... please
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