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Author Topic: Crossover Help  (Read 8961 times)

John Woodfield

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Crossover Help
« on: December 26, 2012, 10:18:42 PM »

Preface: I have very little knowledge of crossover settings and how things are supposed to be set, please bear with me.

Presonus Studiolives->DRPA PA->AMP->Speakers

I currently have the DRPA split so I can run my mains through one side and keep my subs aux driven.

For my mains I am using TOA HX-5's. TOA has recommended a crossover setting of HPF BW (24 dB/oct) at 90Hz. From my research, primarily here, it seems that the consensus would be running it a bit higher 100-130Hz to protect the speakers.

I've figured out where to place those settings in the DRPA.

Here is my question, based on the settings TOA recommends for the mains slightly modified to say 100Hz what do I set the low end of the crossover to for the subs so I end up with transparent response? I wasn't sure if I use the same BW 24dB/oct at 100Hz to basically duplicate the HPF or if I should go lower,  higher or something completely different.

Thank you in advance for the assistance.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Crossover Help
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2012, 10:33:24 PM »

Preface: I have very little knowledge of crossover settings and how things are supposed to be set, please bear with me.

Presonus Studiolives->DRPA PA->AMP->Speakers

I currently have the DRPA split so I can run my mains through one side and keep my subs aux driven.

For my mains I am using TOA HX-5's. TOA has recommended a crossover setting of HPF BW (24 dB/oct) at 90Hz. From my research, primarily here, it seems that the consensus would be running it a bit higher 100-130Hz to protect the speakers.

I've figured out where to place those settings in the DRPA.

Here is my question, based on the settings TOA recommends for the mains slightly modified to say 100Hz what do I set the low end of the crossover to for the subs so I end up with transparent response? I wasn't sure if I use the same BW 24dB/oct at 100Hz to basically duplicate the HPF or if I should go lower,  higher or something completely different.

Thank you in advance for the assistance.
It is not that simple.  it is pretty simple-if you are dealing with perfect sources-which you are not.  So the PROPER settings will depends on a lot of factors-of which we cannot even start to guess at-unless we have some good measurements of both the subs and the full range cabinets.

Exactly what do you mean "transparent"?  Most people prefer the subs to be a bit louder than the full range cabinets.  But not always.  How much louder-it depends.  That difference will also affect the crossover freq.

Also the electrical and acoustical crossovers are very rarely the same-hence the need for the acoustical measurements-especially if the subs are run louder.

Sorry.  But there is no "simple" answer.  There is of course a "simple wrong answer".

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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

John Woodfield

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Re: Crossover Help
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2012, 10:40:14 PM »

It is not that simple.  it is pretty simple-if you are dealing with perfect sources-which you are not.  So the PROPER settings will depends on a lot of factors-of which we cannot even start to guess at-unless we have some good measurements of both the subs and the full range cabinets.

Exactly what do you mean "transparent"?  Most people prefer the subs to be a bit louder than the full range cabinets.  But not always.  How much louder-it depends.  That difference will also affect the crossover freq.

Also the electrical and acoustical crossovers are very rarely the same-hence the need for the acoustical measurements-especially if the subs are run louder.

Sorry.  But there is no "simple" answer.  There is of course a "simple wrong answer".

Ivan,

I mistakenly figured there was a simple formula of where to set the bottoms since the frequency of the tops has already been determined.

When you say "measurements" are you referring to the specs of the boxes or measurements taken in-room?

Volume is not the concern here. The frequency and slopes is what I need to determine.

If you can point me in the right direction, even a starting point that isn't perfect, I'll work with it.
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Jay Barracato

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Re: Crossover Help
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2012, 10:51:20 PM »

I may have missed it but did you ever tell us what the subs are?

If you actually want the top and sub to work together through the crossover range you need to know the phase characteristics of both. Anything else is a random guess.

Unfortunately many people use aux fed subs as an excuse to totally ignore the crossover. In that case all the crossover settings are doing is getting rid of out of band signal. If that is okay with you leave the sub filter where it is and see how it sounds. You are not likely to hurt anything by sliding the frequencies around a bit.
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Jay Barracato

John Woodfield

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Re: Crossover Help
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2012, 11:18:47 PM »

I may have missed it but did you ever tell us what the subs are?

If you actually want the top and sub to work together through the crossover range you need to know the phase characteristics of both. Anything else is a random guess.

Unfortunately many people use aux fed subs as an excuse to totally ignore the crossover. In that case all the crossover settings are doing is getting rid of out of band signal. If that is okay with you leave the sub filter where it is and see how it sounds. You are not likely to hurt anything by sliding the frequencies around a bit.

Subs:
LX-18B Model

http://www.wharfedalepro.com/Home/Products/CLASSICPRODUCTS/LXLXESERIES/LX18BLX18BE/tabid/113/Default.aspx
« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 11:23:08 PM by John Woodfield »
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Tim Perry

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Re: Crossover Help
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2012, 11:19:25 PM »

John, I looked at the manual then set up recommended filter characteristics in the Studio live.  The result looks a bit odd to me.

In particular the relatively narrow  cut at 2.5 K right in the vocal range seems somehow wrong.

My suggestion at this point is for you to contact a TOA applications engineer (not a sales guy) for additional input.

 
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John Woodfield

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Re: Crossover Help
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2012, 11:24:14 PM »

John, I looked at the manual then set up recommended filter characteristics in the Studio live.  The result looks a bit odd to me.

In particular the relatively narrow  cut at 2.5 K right in the vocal range seems somehow wrong.

My suggestion at this point is for you to contact a TOA applications engineer (not a sales guy) for additional input.

How were you able to properly set the Q in the Studiolive?
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Tim Perry

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Re: Crossover Help
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2012, 11:36:43 PM »

How were you able to properly set the Q in the Studiolive?

I just dialed it in using the PEQ to get this visual representation.
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John Woodfield

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Re: Crossover Help
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2012, 11:44:18 PM »

I just dialed it in using the PEQ to get this visual representation.

How come I don't have adjustable Q on mine or am I blind?
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Tim Perry

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Re: Crossover Help
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2012, 12:00:10 AM »

How come I don't have adjustable Q on mine or am I blind?

This is a pic of the computer screen that hooked up via firewire to the Sl24.

This one is a little closer to the "factory recommended setting"
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Crossover Help
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2012, 12:00:10 AM »


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