ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Sound System Upgrade Recommendations for touring band  (Read 15542 times)

Jordan Wolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1483
  • Location: Collingswood, NJ
Re: Sound System Upgrade Recommendations for touring band
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2012, 12:15:26 PM »

A big +1 to what Tim said, and another one to what Mike said.

It is a significant investment of time and money, at the very least.  Plus, you don't want to be mixing side-of-stage for groups that large (never is actually my preference).  You need a spot out in the audience for an accurate representation of what they hear.
Logged
Jordan Wolf
<><

"We want our sound to go into the soul of the audience, and see if it can awaken some little thing in their minds... Cause there are so many sleeping people." - Jimi Hendrix

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: Sound System Upgrade Recommendations for touring band
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2012, 12:28:01 PM »

A big +1 to what Tim said, and another one to what Mike said.

It is a significant investment of time and money, at the very least.  Plus, you don't want to be mixing side-of-stage for groups audiences that large (never is actually my preference).  You need a spot out in the audience for an accurate representation of what they hear.


Edited so that I could understand it.  The audience, not the band.  I'm getting old.....

This is why groups send out tech riders.  When you're hired to provide entertainment in venues which require a substantial amount of tech for a quality show, the presenter/promoter has to bear the cost in some way, either paying you to arrange for production or providing it themselves.

As someone who has spent a considerable portion of his professional life as a performer, what you are proposing (owning your own gear and "throwing it in" to get hired) is just bush league.  What you are actually doing in such a scenario is underwriting their production costs at your own expense.

But who knows.  You may become wealthy music industry idols some day.
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Carl Dacorte

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6
    • Iron Horse!
Re: Sound System Upgrade Recommendations for touring band
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 12:43:25 PM »

Thanks for the response everyone!  (Especially John!  I might take you up on that offer to give those speakers a listen.)

Everyone's suggestions to contract the sound out is a good one and one that would be an easier option.  I should have been clearer that when I'm not playing music, I too am in the sound business... so I'm not only looking for a better sound system to tour with, but also to hire out locally for myself.  I'm considering this a business investment.

Our tech rider is current to our needs, but you and I both know that riders are almost never followed.  We're talking small town fairs here... population 1000.  When it comes to sound providers, options are limited.  We're working with a national renowned talent agency and the way our contracts work is that we're payed a flat fee by the buyer which says we provide sound (whether its us doing it or contracting it out.)  This is the way we want it so that we can control the quality of sound provided.

I was also a bit liberal in my coverage needs.  At absolute MAX we're looking at about 1000 people in the size of a small baseball field... usually around 500 though.  My volume levels are way off too... I should have type 100dB @ 50 feet... not yards... oops! (lay off... I wrote it at 2:00 in the morning... :D  )  For the typical fairs we play, 50' covers the general seating where people want to enjoy "concert sound levels."

One last thing to mention.  We worked with LOTS of local sound guys this past year all throughout the midwest and while most of them are nice and easy to work with... their systems typically weren't any more up to par than my own.  Ultimately, that was the deciding factor to run our own sound for fairs and festivals.  I would rather pay myself a little more to provide sound and know exactly what I'm getting rather than pay someone else and not have a clue to what I'm getting.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not looking for the cheap way out.  I'm looking for the wise way out.  My reasoning is that if I can invest a bit into a more efficient system than what we're using now, in the long run our band will save money and I would make more money both at my band's gigs and my own sound gigs.  We would know exactly what we're getting and be prepared for it.

On a side note, I found a a pair of JBL SR4732/ SR4715A speakers selling locally for $2200.00.  Any one have any experience with these?  I know another local sound company who uses these and from what I remember, they sound decent.  Good price? 

On another side note, what's your rig look like?  And what spaces can you cover with it? 

Thanks again everyone for the help!

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: Sound System Upgrade Recommendations for touring band
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2012, 12:52:27 PM »

Thanks for the response everyone!  (Especially John!  I might take you up on that offer to give those speakers a listen.)

Everyone's suggestions to contract the sound out is a good one and one that would be an easier option.  I should have been clearer that when I'm not playing music, I too am in the sound business... so I'm not only looking for a better sound system to tour with, but also to hire out locally for myself.  I'm considering this a business investment.

Our tech rider is current to our needs, but you and I both know that riders are almost never followed.  We're talking small town fairs here... population 1000.  When it comes to sound providers, options are limited.  We're working with a national renowned talent agency and the way our contracts work is that we're payed a flat fee by the buyer which says we provide sound (whether its us doing it or contracting it out.)  This is the way we want it so that we can control the quality of sound provided.

I was also a bit liberal in my coverage needs.  At absolute MAX we're looking at about 1000 people in the size of a small baseball field... usually around 500 though.  My volume levels are way off too... I should have type 100dB @ 50 feet... not yards... oops! (lay off... I wrote it at 2:00 in the morning... :D  )  For the typical fairs we play, 50' covers the general seating where people want to enjoy "concert sound levels."

One last thing to mention.  We worked with LOTS of local sound guys this past year all throughout the midwest and while most of them are nice and easy to work with... their systems typically weren't any more up to par than my own.  Ultimately, that was the deciding factor to run our own sound for fairs and festivals.  I would rather pay myself a little more to provide sound and know exactly what I'm getting rather than pay someone else and not have a clue to what I'm getting.

Don't get me wrong... I'm not looking for the cheap way out.  I'm looking for the wise way out.  My reasoning is that if I can invest a bit into a more efficient system than what we're using now, in the long run our band will save money and I would make more money both at my band's gigs and my own sound gigs.  We would know exactly what we're getting and be prepared for it.

On a side note, I found a a pair of JBL SR4732/ SR4715A speakers selling locally for $2200.00.  Any one have any experience with these?  I know another local sound company who uses these and from what I remember, they sound decent.  Good price? 

On another side note, what's your rig look like?  And what spaces can you cover with it? 

Thanks again everyone for the help!

Having played that circuit 40 years ago, I doubt that much has changed.

If your requirements are more modest than your original statement, look at deployment as your main concern.  Fewer, more powerful boxes will give you greater clarity over your audience area.  Getting them up over the crowd will let them be more effective.  And for outdoor use you're looking for horn-loaded boxes.....or the popular "line array".

That's about it......except the caveat about safe, adequate power to run whatever you bring.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 12:54:04 PM by dick rees »
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Carl Dacorte

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6
    • Iron Horse!
Re: Sound System Upgrade Recommendations for touring band
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 12:55:18 PM »


As someone who has spent a considerable portion of his professional life as a performer, what you are proposing (owning your own gear and "throwing it in" to get hired) is just bush league.  What you are actually doing in such a scenario is underwriting their production costs at your own expense.

But who knows.  You may become wealthy music industry idols some day.

Here's our reasoning.  The venue can only pay a certain amount.  Lets say they can afford to pay us $3000.00 to play at their fair.  We can tell them they need to provide sound, in which case they'll tell us now the most they can afford is $2500.00.  Or (and this is what we've been doing and prefer to do) We can charge them $3000.00 and from that pay $500.00 for a company to come in to run sound for us.  This way we know exactly what were getting.  My proposal now is that I provide sound and charge the band less than we would pay a local sound company.  I make more money, and the band keeps more money (of which I am a 50% owner... so I get to keep even more money :D  )

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: Sound System Upgrade Recommendations for touring band
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2012, 01:00:11 PM »

Here's our reasoning.  The venue can only pay a certain amount.  Lets say they can afford to pay us $3000.00 to play at their fair.  We can tell them they need to provide sound, in which case they'll tell us now the most they can afford is $2500.00.  Or (and this is what we've been doing and prefer to do) We can charge them $3000.00 and from that pay $500.00 for a company to come in to run sound for us.  This way we know exactly what were getting.  My proposal now is that I provide sound and charge the band less than we would pay a local sound company.  I make more money, and the band keeps more money (of which I am a 50% owner... so I get to keep even more money :D  )

$500.00 for that much gear and service?????? 

Let me be clear.  I'm not unsympathetic to the plight of the "working musician".  But either you're in dreamland or your topic is mis-stated for the actual information you need.  Or some of both.

The gear you're looking at is certainly louder than what you're using.  But it's still sort of "club gear".  Outdoor sound is a different animal requiring 4x the gear for indoor......at a minimum......for the same # of people.

The way the "facts" have been laid out for us would lead me to believe that either the amount available ($500) for gear/service is 1/4 to 1/3 what it should be or that the whole project is quite a bit smaller than we've been led to believe.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 01:15:09 PM by dick rees »
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Carl Dacorte

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6
    • Iron Horse!
Re: Sound System Upgrade Recommendations for touring band
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2012, 01:11:19 PM »

Dick, what would you charge to provide sound for a 3 piece band in a small baseball field?  Load in's at 2:00 pm, sound check at 5:00, show starts at 7:00, strike is at 10:00.

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: Sound System Upgrade Recommendations for touring band
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2012, 01:22:19 PM »

Dick, what would you charge to provide sound for a 3 piece band in a small baseball field?  Load in's at 2:00 pm, sound check at 5:00, show starts at 7:00, strike is at 10:00.

Given the info you've laid out so far you're looking at a 10 hour day.....plus travel time....so that's probably a 12 hour day.  If you figure a crew of 2, going rate for the engineer is around $500 for the day, $300 for the roadie/tech/helper.  The gear is on top of that, so add mileage and $800.  That includes my liability insurance.  Power considerations may increase the cost if I have to provide my own.

  Do you carry your own liability when you provide for yourselves?

And no, you cannot save $$$ by helping with the in/out.  My insurance doesn't cover "volunteers".
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 01:24:07 PM by dick rees »
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

Carl Dacorte

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6
    • Iron Horse!
Re: Sound System Upgrade Recommendations for touring band
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2012, 01:41:09 PM »

Given the info you've laid out so far you're looking at a 10 hour day.....plus travel time....so that's probably a 12 hour day.  If you figure a crew of 2, going rate for the engineer is around $500 for the day, $300 for the roadie/tech/helper.  The gear is on top of that, so add mileage and $800.  That includes my liability insurance.  Power considerations may increase the cost if I have to provide my own.

  Do you carry your own liability when you provide for yourselves?

And no, you cannot save $$$ by helping with the in/out.  My insurance doesn't cover "volunteers".

Wow, the MN market must be a lot different than the Chicago market.  Sound providers are a dime a dozen around here which I guess drives the prices down.  I've yet to encounter a sound provider who would charge more than $500.00 for my modified/ revised needs I listed.  Most around here work solo too with no tech.  I need to move to MN!  :D

The band operates under an umbrella corp that I own.  It encompasses my sound company as well as other business endeavors and is fully insured.

g'bye, Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7424
  • Duluth
Re: Sound System Upgrade Recommendations for touring band
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2012, 01:55:34 PM »

Wow, the MN market must be a lot different than the Chicago market.  Sound providers are a dime a dozen around here which I guess drives the prices down.  I've yet to encounter a sound provider who would charge more than $500.00 for my modified/ revised needs I listed.  Most around here work solo too with no tech.  I need to move to MN!  :D

The band operates under an umbrella corp that I own.  It encompasses my sound company as well as other business endeavors and is fully insured.

For $500 you'll get something that makes noise.  If you want good sound, triple it.

On the other hand, I could bring my midi-accordion "one-man band" and do the show for a grand...........
Logged
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain...

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Sound System Upgrade Recommendations for touring band
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2012, 01:55:34 PM »


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
 



Site Hosted By Ashdown Technologies, Inc.

Page created in 0.038 seconds with 22 queries.