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Author Topic: 300' video run  (Read 4656 times)

brian maddox

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300' video run
« on: November 13, 2012, 07:05:20 pm »

Okay, for our church's Christmas Eve Service i need to run Video and Audio about 300 feet from our production room to an overflow room.  The building is wired cat5 for computers, but running through that using Baluns adds significantly to the length of the run.  I'm inclined to keep it simple.

My Video Switcher outputs HD-SDI and Analog component.  The Projector i'm running to i don't think supports HD-SDI so i'm inclined to just run good ol' 5-wire BNC component cable.  We don't own that much and with the price of copper i'm probably not gonna buy it.  but i figure i should be able to rent that from a local Video House.  Might cost me a couple hundred for the week i need it, but that'd be worth it.

Anyone have any ideas of any way to do this better?  Long VGA cables?  Some rock solid Balun solution i'm not aware of?  I'm mostly interested in in being rock solid, simple to implement and high quality.  The Screen this goes to is pretty huge [maybe 16' X 20' ish] so any loss of quality looks pretty icky.

suggestions?
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brian maddox
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Brad Weber

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Re: 300' video run
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2012, 09:38:05 am »

You mentioned analog component video and then running it as five wired so is it YUV/YPbPr component video or RGBHV?
 
You also mentioned HD-SDI and analog component video, so assuming 720, 1080i or 1080p HD signals, 300' is a long run for coax.  In addition, there aren't many 300' bundled five wire cables offered and the multiple inline connections required to string together multiple shorter cables would not only be a potential source of problems but probably increase the losses.  Then there is the factor of whether any of the run would be through plenum space and thus require plenum rated cable, which may be more difficult to find for rental.
 
Magenta Research, Extron, Hall Research, Kramer Electronics, FSR, Crestron, etc. offer RGBHV/VGA (with or without audio) over UTP/STP transmitter and receiver pairs that can run 1080p video well over 300' and in some cases over 1000'.  Or you could go with RGBHV/VGA over fiber that supports runs that are thousands of feet long.
 
Just to clarify, when you say the building is wired with CAT5 for computers keep in mind that that may be viable to use for audio and video over UTP/STP if you can patch to create a point-to-point connection, but not if the signal would run through switches, routers, hubs, etc.
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brian maddox

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Re: 300' video run
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2012, 12:43:40 am »

You mentioned analog component video and then running it as five wired so is it YUV/YPbPr component video or RGBHV?
 
You also mentioned HD-SDI and analog component video, so assuming 720, 1080i or 1080p HD signals, 300' is a long run for coax.  In addition, there aren't many 300' bundled five wire cables offered and the multiple inline connections required to string together multiple shorter cables would not only be a potential source of problems but probably increase the losses.  Then there is the factor of whether any of the run would be through plenum space and thus require plenum rated cable, which may be more difficult to find for rental.
 
Magenta Research, Extron, Hall Research, Kramer Electronics, FSR, Crestron, etc. offer RGBHV/VGA (with or without audio) over UTP/STP transmitter and receiver pairs that can run 1080p video well over 300' and in some cases over 1000'.  Or you could go with RGBHV/VGA over fiber that supports runs that are thousands of feet long.
 
Just to clarify, when you say the building is wired with CAT5 for computers keep in mind that that may be viable to use for audio and video over UTP/STP if you can patch to create a point-to-point connection, but not if the signal would run through switches, routers, hubs, etc.

all good info.  looks like i may look into the Cat5 solution a little more closely.  all our Cat5 connections in the building go to a central rack room where they terminate in a physical patch bay, so patching from one jack in one room straight through to another room without hitting switches and the like is quite easy.

i admit that i am but a lowly audio guy and i'm still learning this video stuff.  but i believe we're talking about YUV/YPbPr component video.  my video system can output SDI as well as component analog and HDMI simultaneously.  my main room projectors run SDI, but the overflow room projector can only do SD-SDI and we'll be running HD.  it's an old Barco R12 so getting an HD-SDI card for it is unlikely.  That's why i was thinking of going the analog route.  it'll take HD in analog.

This will be a temporary run for just this one service, so no plenum runs.  just running along the walls and over a couple of doors.  still, if we can do it with Cat5 at a reasonable cost, that would be a win.

Do you know of a good place to possibly rent the gear to do this?  we only need it once a year, so buying seems like a bad idea, unless we're only talking a couple hundred bucks.

thanks for the help.

brian
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Sean Hayes

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Re: 300' video run
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2012, 06:17:12 pm »

Okay, for our church's Christmas Eve Service i need to run Video and Audio about 300 feet from our production room to an overflow room.  The building is wired cat5 for computers, but running through that using Baluns adds significantly to the length of the run.  I'm inclined to keep it simple.

My Video Switcher outputs HD-SDI and Analog component.  The Projector i'm running to i don't think supports HD-SDI so i'm inclined to just run good ol' 5-wire BNC component cable.  We don't own that much and with the price of copper i'm probably not gonna buy it.  but i figure i should be able to rent that from a local Video House.  Might cost me a couple hundred for the week i need it, but that'd be worth it.

Anyone have any ideas of any way to do this better?  Long VGA cables?  Some rock solid Balun solution i'm not aware of?  I'm mostly interested in in being rock solid, simple to implement and high quality.  The Screen this goes to is pretty huge [maybe 16' X 20' ish] so any loss of quality looks pretty icky.

suggestions?

You may be best off running RGBHV. 300' is stretching the length of what 5wire should do, but with a good quality DA you should be ok. We carry 200' runs and use that length often. When we have to do anything longer that 300' we use some sort of cat5 converter.

Find a local rental company and give them a call. They might have a solution that will work great for you.

Sean
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Sean T. Hayes

Steve Ferreira

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Re: 300' video run
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2012, 09:19:47 pm »

Hi Brian,

I have used the cat5 UTP, RGBHV and fiber as well. I can't remember the name of the fiber I used, but we ran video and audio down the single line (about 1000'). The fiber solution worked out well.

As Sean mentions RGBHV will work also, where I work we have 200' lines and don't normally have a problem. Use good DA's where you need them.

What switcher are you using? What input cards does the R12 have in them?
See if VER is in your neck of the woods, they will have everything you need.
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Mike Brown

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Re: 300' video run
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2012, 02:36:15 pm »

Okay, for our church's Christmas Eve Service i need to run Video and Audio about 300 feet from our production room to an overflow room.  The building is wired cat5 for computers, but running through that using Baluns adds significantly to the length of the run.  I'm inclined to keep it simple.

My Video Switcher outputs HD-SDI and Analog component.  The Projector i'm running to i don't think supports HD-SDI so i'm inclined to just run good ol' 5-wire BNC component cable.  We don't own that much and with the price of copper i'm probably not gonna buy it.  but i figure i should be able to rent that from a local Video House.  Might cost me a couple hundred for the week i need it, but that'd be worth it.

Anyone have any ideas of any way to do this better?  Long VGA cables?  Some rock solid Balun solution i'm not aware of?  I'm mostly interested in in being rock solid, simple to implement and high quality.  The Screen this goes to is pretty huge [maybe 16' X 20' ish] so any loss of quality looks pretty icky.

suggestions?

Run HD-SDI down a decent RG6 (good for at least 330').  At the projector use a Blackmagic Design SDI to Analog converter ($295) which will then provide your HD analog input a YPbPr component signal.  This will also help avoid noise in the signal since it's digital all the way. 
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brian maddox

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Re: 300' video run
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2012, 03:28:54 pm »

Run HD-SDI down a decent RG6 (good for at least 330').  At the projector use a Blackmagic Design SDI to Analog converter ($295) which will then provide your HD analog input a YPbPr component signal.  This will also help avoid noise in the signal since it's digital all the way.

it's funny, i didn't see this reply, and yet came to the same conclusion independently.  yay me...

turns out it's gonna be SD-SDI with embedded audio.  the audio is what makes running SDI particularly attractive.  i can take and SDI straight from my video mixer with the audio embedded, pull the audio off at the other end and go either analog or SDI into my projector.  don't see any downside to any of that.

i paced off the run, and we're right at the edge of 100 meters or so.  if it's too long for a straight run, can i just break the line midway and put something on as a reclocker/booster?  if so, what would you recommend?  and does the fact that it is SD-SDI and not HD affect the length it can be run?

also, can you define for me what decent RG6 is and where i should get it?  i'm thinking i should just go buy the run of it, but i suspect at that length i'm looking at buying the cable and putting the ends on myself.

thanks to all as always...
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Philip Roberts

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Re: 300' video run
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2012, 07:44:18 pm »

turns out it's gonna be SD-SDI with embedded audio.  the audio is what makes running SDI particularly attractive.  i can take and SDI straight from my video mixer with the audio embedded, pull the audio off at the other end and go either analog or SDI into my projector.  don't see any downside to any of that.

i paced off the run, and we're right at the edge of 100 meters or so.  if it's too long for a straight run, can i just break the line midway and put something on as a reclocker/booster?  if so, what would you recommend?  and does the fact that it is SD-SDI and not HD affect the length it can be run?

also, can you define for me what decent RG6 is and where i should get it?  i'm thinking i should just go buy the run of it, but i suspect at that length i'm looking at buying the cable and putting the ends on myself.

SD-SDI can be run further than HD. Keep the following link handy for reference:
http://www.belden.com/pdfs/techpprs/maximum_transmission_distance_at_serial_digital_data_rates.pdf

I'd use Belden 1694A, 1695A or 1694F depending on your needs (permanent install, plenum, flexible...) of course Gepco, and many other make good cable also. I'm partial to Canare connectors but Belden and King's are also big names. If you want to step down to RG59 it's 1505A, 1506A and 1505F.

Markertek would be a good source for this cable.

Hope this helps,

Philip
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Mac Kerr

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Re: 300' video run
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2012, 09:57:03 pm »

it's funny, i didn't see this reply, and yet came to the same conclusion independently.  yay me...

turns out it's gonna be SD-SDI with embedded audio.  the audio is what makes running SDI particularly attractive.  i can take and SDI straight from my video mixer with the audio embedded, pull the audio off at the other end and go either analog or SDI into my projector.  don't see any downside to any of that.

i paced off the run, and we're right at the edge of 100 meters or so.  if it's too long for a straight run, can i just break the line midway and put something on as a reclocker/booster?  if so, what would you recommend?  and does the fact that it is SD-SDI and not HD affect the length it can be run?

also, can you define for me what decent RG6 is and where i should get it?  i'm thinking i should just go buy the run of it, but i suspect at that length i'm looking at buying the cable and putting the ends on myself.

thanks to all as always...

Fiber goes a long way. Rent a couple of AJA Fido HD-SDI to fiber convertors. VER should have them, and they are probably cheap to rent. VER can supply the fiber as well.

Mac

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brian maddox

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Re: 300' video run
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2012, 10:03:46 pm »

SD-SDI can be run further than HD. Keep the following link handy for reference:
http://www.belden.com/pdfs/techpprs/maximum_transmission_distance_at_serial_digital_data_rates.pdf

I'd use Belden 1694A, 1695A or 1694F depending on your needs (permanent install, plenum, flexible...) of course Gepco, and many other make good cable also. I'm partial to Canare connectors but Belden and King's are also big names. If you want to step down to RG59 it's 1505A, 1506A and 1505F.

Markertek would be a good source for this cable.

Hope this helps,

Philip

Awesome info.  Thanks so much...
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brian maddox
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'...do not trifle with the affairs of dragons...

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