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[Sam H Flynn]

Hello ,

Been in Live sound for the last 10 years..Full time employee to a major supplier , and then contractor to bands etc.. Am now going out on my own as a supplier.
Wanting to initially buy a ground stack to cover max 2000 audience. Have good access to very responsibly priced D&B , so am thinking of buying the following.

FOH-
12 x C7 Tops (or 4 x C7 with 8 x C4 tops seeing as the 4's have greater throw)
12 x C7 Sub's
6 x D12's (since their so much lighter than the p1200a's and you need less of them , so its cost affected to buy the D12's)
PM5Drh

MONS-

Max x 12 ( would of liked the M4's , but cant stretch that far money wise just yet)
D12's x 6 ( again , more cost affective than getting p1200a's)
M7CL48

Would appreciate any criticism or comments regarding this rig!


Cheers ,
Sam

[Patrick Moore]

I would be thrilled to walk into a venue with this rig.  Lots of flexibility with 2 digital consoles and plenty of speaker output for a crowds of that size. 

[Sam H Flynn]

I would be thrilled to walk into a venue with this rig.  Lots of flexibility with 2 digital consoles and plenty of speaker output for a crowds of that size.

Thanks for the response Patrick.

So am now thinking of also adding an analogue console. Lots of engineer's spec them ( in my area anyway)and would hate to lose a show just because I didn't have one!
Thinking of either going the cheaper route and getting a XL200 ,or XL250.. could also go with a H3000.. They sound great , but I'm thinking that there to just too large to be practical.

Thoughts?Or other ideas of a good rock n roll analogue console?

[Bob Leonard]

APB.

[Michael Gorecki]

APB.

+1

[Tony Mitchell]

FOH-
12 x C7 Tops (or 4 x C7 with 8 x C4 tops seeing as the 4's have greater throw)
12 x C7 Sub's
6 x D12's

Sam, a couple of points,
- the C7 Top is 75deg(H) whereas C4 is 35deg, therefore much more suitable for deploying in the multiples you're suggesting.   You're unlikely to want to array more than two C7 TOPs together, they're good in singles for small affairs and for front fills, on a bigger C4 system, so I understand your thoughts on getting both.
- as a total system, 12+12 looks rather top heavy.   Bear in mind one "stack" of C7 in d&b speak consists of 2 x C7 SUBs and one C7 top.   A stack of C4 is 1 SUB + 1 TOP, but that's as there's an assumption you'll be running B2s underneath, as C4 SUBs don't play low enough for most applications.
- as an aside, you should pick up secondhand C4 cheaper than C7, there's a lot more of it about.

[Simon Ryder]

Thanks for the response Patrick.

So am now thinking of also adding an analogue console. Lots of engineer's spec them ( in my area anyway)and would hate to lose a show just because I didn't have one!
Thinking of either going the cheaper route and getting a XL200 ,or XL250.. could also go with a H3000.. They sound great , but I'm thinking that there to just too large to be practical.

Thoughts?Or other ideas of a good rock n roll analogue console?

If you are in the UK, I have an XL200 we are looking to part with.

[Brad Weber]

Sam, a couple of points,
- the C7 Top is 75deg(H) whereas C4 is 35deg, therefore much more suitable for deploying in the multiples you're suggesting.   You're unlikely to want to array more than two C7 TOPs together, they're good in singles for small affairs and for front fills, on a bigger C4 system, so I understand your thoughts on getting both.
- as a total system, 12+12 looks rather top heavy.   Bear in mind one "stack" of C7 in d&b speak consists of 2 x C7 SUBs and one C7 top.   A stack of C4 is 1 SUB + 1 TOP, but that's as there's an assumption you'll be running B2s underneath, as C4 SUBs don't play low enough for most applications.

+1, you didn't provide much detail about the potential venues, events or acts for this rig but I am curious as to how you plan to deploy the quantities of FOH boxes you have noted.
 
Is this going to be your only rig?  Are there potential cross rental opportunities in your area?  How do you plan on splitting inputs for monitors and FOH?

[Sam H Flynn]

Sam, a couple of points,
- the C7 Top is 75deg(H) whereas C4 is 35deg, therefore much more suitable for deploying in the multiples you're suggesting.   You're unlikely to want to array more than two C7 TOPs together, they're good in singles for small affairs and for front fills, on a bigger C4 system, so I understand your thoughts on getting both.
- as a total system, 12+12 looks rather top heavy.   Bear in mind one "stack" of C7 in d&b speak consists of 2 x C7 SUBs and one C7 top.   A stack of C4 is 1 SUB + 1 TOP, but that's as there's an assumption you'll be running B2s underneath, as C4 SUBs don't play low enough for most applications.
- as an aside, you should pick up secondhand C4 cheaper than C7, there's a lot more of it about.

Thanks so much for input. Very helpful.
Leaning towards just going with C7 , But need to put more thought into the configuration.The budget wont allow for adding B2's if we go for C4's .
Going to need to rethink though , as you said , C4's are cheaper , and also there is more out there on the second hand market.
Back to the drawing board! 

[Sam H Flynn]

If you are in the UK, I have an XL200 we are looking to part with.

Will PM you to discuss Simon.

[Adam Robinson]

The D&B C system is one of my favorite conventional boxes still, but Tony is quite right, the C7 was never designed to be deployed in multiples.  If you're looking for a sizeable rig as you've mentioned, you'll want to stick with the C4 as the C7s pattern doesn't lend itself to being in an array with 6 per side (the quantities you mentioned).  I'm currently using two C7 tops over two C7 subs per side as sidefill on my tour.  I had previously used a C7 top and C7 sub over a B2, but need move coverage on stage this time around.  I'm regularly impressed at how loud these boxes get and how good they sound.

When you're back at your drawing board, I highly recommend seeing what you can do in C4 land, including looking at B2s.  The B2 sub is still an amazing box and one of my favorite subs out there!

[Brian Larson]

That's a very nice system you're talking about, but do you have the gigs to use it? You say you've been in live sound for 10 years working for another company, but do you have a client base that will need a rig this size?

Probably 70% or more of my gigs are SOS. It was probably more like 99% in my first few years of business. I've got a QRX rig that sounds great and is fun to play with but it doesnt go out nearly as much as a pair of powered speakers and an 01V. if you've already got the clients that need the big rig then by all means go for it. Otherwise I urge you to think about getting some smaller more versatile systems and invest your money into other aspects of your business plan.

YMMV

[Tony Mitchell]

if you've already got the clients that need the big rig then by all means go for it. Otherwise I urge you to think about getting some smaller more versatile systems and invest your money into other aspects of your business plan.

Brian makes a very valid point.   Our full range E series boxes go out much more frequently and earn us more money than the Q does, and the depreciation cost on the Q is obviously a lot more than the E.

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