Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Stuart Pendleton]

I don't doubt Ivan at all, but the thing is that everybody has a different idea of how much bass is too much/not enough.  Hearing from different users helps us all get an idea of how to use these things.

I trust Ivan, but the real test is to ask Evan. ;-)

[Samuel Rees]

Lol...

[Chip Dryden]

So a couple of questions, Does the 80 deg conical pattern cause reflective issues in rooms with low ceilings, say 10'. I think I cross over my th118's under 80hz and let my tops punch the mid bass, does the 80-110 area get muddy coming from the subs assuming you have a higher lpf?

[Rick Powell]

So a couple of questions, Does the 80 deg conical pattern cause reflective issues in rooms with low ceilings, say 10'. I think I cross over my th118's under 80hz and let my tops punch the mid bass, does the 80-110 area get muddy coming from the subs assuming you have a higher lpf?

The one room I have used these in did not have huge reflectivity issues with the 80x80 pattern, but it has a 12 or 14' ceiling so no idea on the 10' ceiling in real life.  It was a long and narrow hall and I actually used it 1 over 1 with a TH 115 on the bottom.

The SM80 really drops off below 100 Hz.  I have the subs crossed around 90 Hz w/ 24dB/oct and the tops around 110 Hz with 12dB/oct, and don't really hear a hole at 100...I typically don't like a lot of excess energy at that frequency anyway. 

[Chip Dryden]

 

really drops off below 100 Hz.  I have the subs crossed around 90 Hz w/ 24dB/oct and the tops around 110 Hz with 12dB/oct, and don't really hear a hole at 100...I typically don't like a lot of excess energy at that frequency anyway.

  Rick thank you for sharing your views on this product.

[Ivan Beaver]

The one room I have used these in did not have huge reflectivity issues with the 80x80 pattern, but it has a 12 or 14' ceiling so no idea on the 10' ceiling in real life.  It was a long and narrow hall and I actually used it 1 over 1 with a TH 115 on the bottom.

The SM80 really drops off below 100 Hz.  I have the subs crossed around 90 Hz w/ 24dB/oct and the tops around 110 Hz with 12dB/oct, and don't really hear a hole at 100...I typically don't like a lot of excess energy at that frequency anyway.

The thing that a lot of people miss-is the difference between the ACOUSTICAL and ELECTRICAL points in a system.

Electrically it may seem like there is a hole-but that would only be the case if the loudspeakers on either "side" of the crossover point were flat in response and run at the same level.

This is RARELY the case.  For the case in point (top and sub) most subs are louder in the end of their response than down at the bottom (so louder at 100-200Hz than at 40-50Hz). 

AND most people run the subs hotter than the full range signals.  So the ACOUSTICAL crossover (basically where the subs and tops meet) is going to be higher than either the low pass on the woofers or the highpass on the tops.

The same thing happens going from mids to HF devices-except the opposite way.  Most HF drivers get really loud down towards the bottom end of their response.  So that extra energy has to be "done away with", by crossing over higher-so the ACOUSTICAL output is now more even. 

Now sometimes this "excess energy" is delt with by using EQ, other times by shifting crossover points-it really depends on the particular situation and the final phase/amplitude result desired.  Sometimes one approach is better than another-it depends.

So if there is a "hole" electrically", it will (in many cases) be filled in (acoustically) because the level of the sub is so much higher.

This is true of most loudspeakers.

The END result is what we are interested in (what our ears hear) not what the "numbers are".

I get asked all the time "where are the crossover points in a particular box".  What does it matter-if you can't see it on a measured response or hear it-WHO CARES.  Does it matter if the highs are crossed over at 500Hz or 2Khz or 8Kz?  If you can't hear it-then it is of no concern-except that some people want to "judge" a design (that htey may not fully understand what is going on) based on some preconceived notion they may have-which in many cases are wrong.

[Ivan Beaver]

The SM80 really drops off below 100 Hz.  I have the subs crossed around 90 Hz w/ 24dB/oct and the tops around 110 Hz with 12dB/oct, and don't really hear a hole at 100...I typically don't like a lot of excess energy at that frequency anyway.

Another comment on the low end response.  It is a sealed box, so the rolloff is slower than a ported box.  Also because it is a sealed box, the impedance is very high down on the bottom end of the response.

So you can apply a pretty good boost down around 100Hz without doing any damage to the loudspeaker.  Electrically, because the impedance is high, you are sending a pretty high VOLTAGE to the driver-but not POWER.  So very little heating is going on.

Physically-because the cabinet is sealed-the driver is not "flapping around"  (due to the pressure of the cabinet), so no mechanical damage is being incured.

So in applications where you don't need a pounding sub-a boost on the low end will make the cabinet "full enough" range for most people.

Every design is a matter of compromises.  My basic idea behind the SM80 is that in cases where you need the high output capability of it-you will be using subs.  And as such-the SM80 doesn't need to go down into the sub region.  This helps keep the cabinet smaller and lighter-so it is very loud and easily mounts on a pole/stand.

The monitor version (SM80M) however does go quite a bit lower (a octave lower) and is a ported box (ported through the handles), because it was designed more as a full range product that stands alone.

[Chip Dryden]

Good points which certainly makes sense. I imagine these play easily with the TH118's considering the TH118's freq. response. Are the SM80's pretty much plug and play (eq to taste)  or is it advisable to analyze and adjust accordingly.(assuming Danley would recommend  x-over points)

[Rick Powell]

Good points which certainly makes sense. I imagine these play easily with the TH118's considering the TH118's freq. response. Are the SM80's pretty much plug and play (eq to taste)  or is it advisable to analyze and adjust accordingly.(assuming Danley would recommend  x-over points)

In the first room we did, we had to pull a lot of 300 Hz out of the room for some reason.  Other than that, it sounded very good with no processing outside except for the crossover HPF.

[Chip Dryden]

In the first room we did, we had to pull a lot of 300 Hz out of the room for some reason.  Other than that, it sounded very good with no processing outside except for the crossover HPF.

I look forward to hearing these.