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Author Topic: Danley Jericho for large scale concert  (Read 29554 times)

Tim Weaver

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Re: Danley Jericho for large scale concert
« Reply #20 on: October 24, 2012, 10:00:27 PM »

I didn't have a problem with the low-end output of the J1. It was more the "quality" of the bass. I don't really know how to describe it, but I really, REALLY liked the 812's character more than the J1.

Of course, like has been mentioned, I was astonished at how close you could get to the box and it still sounded cohesive. The way that box assembles audio from the different drivers is really amazing.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Danley Jericho for large scale concert
« Reply #21 on: October 25, 2012, 07:17:05 AM »

I didn't have a problem with the low-end output of the J1. It was more the "quality" of the bass. I don't really know how to describe it, but I really, REALLY liked the 812's character more than the J1.

Of course, like has been mentioned, I was astonished at how close you could get to the box and it still sounded cohesive. The way that box assembles audio from the different drivers is really amazing.
OF course the TH812 goes a full octave lower than the J1.

So depending on the material played, there will be a huge difference in the overall sound and perception.

Hearing that extension adds a whole new dimension to the music.
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Ivan Beaver
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PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Lee Brenkman

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Re: Danley Jericho for large scale concert
« Reply #22 on: October 25, 2012, 12:35:12 PM »

The use of subs has the old question of "how low do you REALLY need to go?"

I would argue that most types of music would be fine if you had cabinets that were truly flat to 45Hz.

Truly a fun cabinet to listen to-mix on etc.  Huge dynamic range is a truly fun thing.

I would go so far as to say that outside of Reggae and Electronica/Rave/Dance/Superstar DJ performances subs are quite often used as an "effect" and more often than not used to detriment of the actual music in my opinion.

Most recently a "Roots/Americana" folk rock band in a 300 capacity venue in San Francisco.  The drummer had a big old 24 inch bass drum and the FOH mixer was making sure that the "bloom" from that sucker was rattling the skeletons of the people in the audience. 

It did NOTHING to enhance the overall enjoyment of the music.

Another show damaged by the cult of the "killer kick drum"  >:(
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John Chiara

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Re: Danley Jericho for large scale concert
« Reply #23 on: October 25, 2012, 02:13:19 PM »

I would go so far as to say that outside of Reggae and Electronica/Rave/Dance/Superstar DJ performances subs are quite often used as an "effect" and more often than not used to detriment of the actual music in my opinion.

Most recently a "Roots/Americana" folk rock band in a 300 capacity venue in San Francisco.  The drummer had a big old 24 inch bass drum and the FOH mixer was making sure that the "bloom" from that sucker was rattling the skeletons of the people in the audience. 

It did NOTHING to enhance the overall enjoyment of the music.

Another show damaged by the cult of the "killer kick drum"  >:(

Another perspective on this. The venue I owned ended up with 4 Danley TH 215's... Giving me really good response down to 25hz. With that kind of extension old big Ludwig kicks for example, took on a whole different feel as the system high pass was lowered. I usually ran it around 40 for visiting BE's and varied it when I was mixing. I think it many times is a matter of less that stellar bass management by the engineers. Having that extension means you have to really practice and get a solid reference so that whatever you do is musical and not distracting. Biggest mistake I saw was BE's not high passing the bass sufficiently. You get an active 5-6 string bass running full range with that kind of extension and it turns ugly fast.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Danley Jericho for large scale concert
« Reply #24 on: October 25, 2012, 02:25:35 PM »

I would go so far as to say that outside of Reggae and Electronica/Rave/Dance/Superstar DJ performances subs are quite often used as an "effect" and more often than not used to detriment of the actual music in my opinion.

Most recently a "Roots/Americana" folk rock band in a 300 capacity venue in San Francisco.  The drummer had a big old 24 inch bass drum and the FOH mixer was making sure that the "bloom" from that sucker was rattling the skeletons of the people in the audience. 

It did NOTHING to enhance the overall enjoyment of the music.

Another show damaged by the cult of the "killer kick drum"  >:(
Look at it a different way.  Take a standard marching band.  The large bass drum is not so much heard as it is felt.  It is there to lay a foundation to the sound.

People who try to make that kind of an instrument a "lead" instrument-are-as you say-ruining the music.  But they probably don't know better or have heard real music.

BTW-Do you know was the highest paid musician in John Phillip Sousa's band?  The bass drum player.  He provided the time and foundation for the rest of the band.  It needed to be RIGHT.  I did not say loud.

I totally agree that many mixes are ruined by one instrument simply being way to loud.

However without knowing the whole story-it could be that if the sound guy didn't run the drum that loud, he would be fired-maybe that is what the band "wanted" not realizing what it did to their music.  Or maybe that is ACTUALLY what they wanted.

As the saying goes-"there's no accounting for taste".
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Ivan Beaver
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: Danley Jericho for large scale concert
« Reply #25 on: October 25, 2012, 03:47:12 PM »

I would go so far as to say that outside of Reggae and Electronica/Rave/Dance/Superstar DJ performances subs are quite often used as an "effect" and more often than not used to detriment of the actual music in my opinion.

True 'nuff. 

I would suggest, however, that having the LF extension really does help the rest of the sound spectrum from the bottom up.  The overtones and sweet harmonics in the upper frequencies IMO benefit from a solid foundation.

This calls, of course, for JUDICIOUS MANAGEMENT of the LF content fed to the subs.  I'm not talking rock and the like, but music which is better reinforced than amplified.  This also implies a full-range system and probably rules out aux-fed subs, or at least calls for more JM as stated above.

Karl, are you out there?

Of course,
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Lee Brenkman

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Re: Danley Jericho for large scale concert
« Reply #26 on: October 26, 2012, 12:28:07 AM »

True 'nuff. 

I would suggest, however, that having the LF extension really does help the rest of the sound spectrum from the bottom up.  The overtones and sweet harmonics in the upper frequencies IMO benefit from a solid foundation.

This calls, of course, for JUDICIOUS MANAGEMENT of the LF content fed to the subs.  I'm not talking rock and the like, but music which is better reinforced than amplified.  This also implies a full-range system and probably rules out aux-fed subs, or at least calls for more JM as stated above.

Karl, are you out there?

Of course,

Judicious management requires some technical and musical knowledge.  A couple of generations of band mixers and audiences have been convinced that "more kick" is the cure to all that is otherwise boring and uninteresting in the band's music.

In the case I cited the stringed instruments and vocals were "the thing" and the low bass extension of that big bass drum would have enhanced the overall musical experience if it hadn't been treated as "the single most important instrument in contemporary music"  as witnessed by the endless "what is the best mic" and "how do i get a better kick sound" questions.

I've been tired of this for over a decade now.

-gramps


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Matt Long

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Re: Danley Jericho for large scale concert
« Reply #27 on: October 26, 2012, 02:04:55 PM »

Does it operate without subs?
I do sound for very bass centric music events here in San Francisco. I had the pleasure of hearing the J1 demoed at a large local night club. Their system uses about 30 sealed 18" for LF and has four corner multiway mains. Subjectively speaking, one J1 placed on the stage, with no subs, STOMPED their entire system hands down. That seemed to be the general consensus at least. I wonder how many people have heard the J1 with "room gain"   :D
J1's over TH812s in all but the largest venues would be devastating!(in a good way).
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Jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney)

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Re: Danley Jericho for large scale concert
« Reply #28 on: October 26, 2012, 07:22:50 PM »

What sort of average SPL were you hitting at FOH?
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Scott Carneval

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Re: Danley Jericho for large scale concert
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2012, 11:56:18 AM »

Ivan,

Maybe you can help me with this comparison. According to the published specs, the TH812 is rated at 154db peak. In comparison, the JBL SRX728 (by no means a competitor to the Danley box, but a reference most people are familiar with) is rated at 136db peak. Ignoring any differences in measurement or calculation techniques (marketing hype) and just taking the published specs at face value, it appears that it would require 64 SRX728 boxes to equal the 154db rating of 1 TH812. That just seems insane!

Is my math correct?  I understand it to be that you would expect a theoretical 3db increase every time you double the number of cabinets. So two cabinets would net 139db, 4 cabs would net 142db, 8 cabs for 145db, 16 cabs for 148db, 32 cabs for 151db, and 64 cabs for 154db.  But wouldn't that 3db theory begin to lose steam as the array got larger?  To gain a true 3db the drivers must occupy the same space. Even an 8x8 array would have some drivers over 1/4 wavelength apart. It doesn't seem practical or economical to even attempt to run that many cabinets.
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Re: Danley Jericho for large scale concert
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2012, 11:56:18 AM »


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