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[Jordan Wolf]

I went to a 4 year university audio program and graduated right when the bottom fell out of the economy. I was fortunate enough to land a job with a production company doing corporate audio work within 10 days of graduating.  Most of my friends are not so lucky but I would blame that in lack of networking skills.  I worked my butt off while taking classes to go meet other engineers and start getting in "call lists" for certain venues.  I think it's all about what you make if your time in audio school... The jobs are obtained the same way whether you have a degree or not.

To Patrick,

I have a similar story to yours.  I didn't specifically go to college for audio, I graduated with a B.A. in Broadcasting at the same time the economy tanked.  While at college, I worked in the PAC doing FOH, MONs, Radio mixdowns, lighting, set construction, and stagehand stuff.  I also got involved in the campus news program and radio station.  Then there was all the on-location audio, audio post-production, and Foley/ADR work for video I got into...  I didn't always get the best grades, but I learned a lot and applied the lessons learned from my mistakes and I think it was worked out pretty well.

After graduating and coming back to NJ, I worked part-time at Home Depot and part-time at a small, local "production company" (after finding out they had no insurance, I decided to move on…) just to keep my hands on some gear, and maybe get some time behind the board at gigs.

I'm at my current job (corporate AV with PSAV Presentation Services) because I kept on submitting applications and hammering that nail until it hit something.  A few days after I interviewed, I was hired.

I think that, no matter what educational establishment you choose to attend, much of what you take away from the experience is just that: what you choose to take away from it.  I know a number of successful AV people who have graduated from places like FullSail who know their stuff, and are real assets to their employers.  They chose to put the time into their education…staying up late in the labs, picking the brains of their professors/teachers, and experimenting/making mistakes.

It takes real effort to improve oneself, and I think there would be many more useful people out there if they just took the time to learn what they could, get help where needed, and continue to learn everyday.

To the OP: this post is a little bit off-topic, but I think these last couple of paragraphs really apply to the types of educational establishments you're looking for data from.  Ivan (and many others on this forum and other places) have worked with people from FullSail (to name one) who lack base skills necessary to be useful and advance in this industry…I'm not even going to start on the "people skills" part of things...

[Geoff Doane]

I went to a 4 year university audio program and graduated right when the bottom fell out of the economy.

Which time was that?   

I didn't realize it at the time, but when when I graduated from electronics tech school in 1980, the economy was going into a tailspin.  I should have know something was up when the phone company, who always hired a half dozen or so grads from the school, hired no one that year.

I was lucky enough to already have a track record at a broadcasting outfit, although l was almost stupid enough enough to turn down a job offer because it wasn't exactly the field I wanted to get into, and it was only temporary.

30+ years later, and the job became permanent and morphed into what I was interested in, and I'm still doing my own thing on the weekends.

In talking to other sound company owners in the area, one thing they seem to have a hard time finding is techs who can do acceptable corporate work.  Simply showing up on time and being presentable seems to be a big challenge for these guys.  It's not glamorous work, but there's plenty of it, in this town at least, but that kind of work seems to be ignored by many who want to get into this business.

GTD

[eric lenasbunt]

[quote author=Geoff Doane link=

In talking to other sound company owners in the area, one thing they seem to have a hard time finding is techs who can do acceptable corporate work.  Simply showing up on time and being presentable seems to be a big challenge for these guys.  It's not glamorous work, but there's plenty of it, in this town at least, but that kind of work seems to be ignored by many who want to get into this business.

GTD
[/quote]

I am constantly looking for guys who can treat this like a profession and not a bar gig. I have a few solid guys, but the call list is short...
  Audio schools seem to send guys who want to turn knobs, not push boxes. In my experience.

[David Buehler]

Just browsing Mix's article on audio Schools and the included testimonials. Anyone know a source for real world placement stats on graduates?

Of the local guys in the ABQ market, we have 3 grads from CRAS in pheonix working for us, 1 of them Full Time, the other 2 are part time. I know of 2 other grads from full sail that are also working in the local market also. Everybody else that works for us comes from other backgrounds or degrees.

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

Of the local guys in the ABQ market, we have 3 grads from CRAS in pheonix working for us, 1 of them Full Time, the other 2 are part time. I know of 2 other grads from full sail that are also working in the local market also. Everybody else that works for us comes from other backgrounds or degrees.

I get dozens of resumes from graduates from CRAS.  Every single one of them except for one has been the EXACT same resume with the EXACT same format only the names and dates were changed.  Needless to say, I have one resume from a CRAS graduate in a file just in case I need to make a call.

I really don't think that most of them really want anything to do with live audio work.  I think most just want to learn to record their own bands and think it might be a glamourous business to get into.

I have worked with a few graduates in other markets and the ones that I have worked with have been good workers that are dedicated to live audio.

[Ivan Beaver]

I get dozens of resumes from graduates from CRAS.  Every single one of them except for one has been the EXACT same resume with the EXACT same format only the names and dates were changed.  Needless to say, I have one resume from a CRAS graduate in a file just in case I need to make a call.

I really don't think that most of them really want anything to do with live audio work.  I think most just want to learn to record their own bands and think it might be a glamourous business to get into.

I have worked with a few graduates in other markets and the ones that I have worked with have been good workers that are dedicated to live audio.

I had a guy who had "graduated" from a local "Arts and music" school.  I'm not sure what they teach these guys.

To make a long story shot-he could not get sound out of a mid level analog console-even after I told him what the issue was.  He said that the teachers did all the buss assignments (channels to sub groups)-but he said he really could "mix".  NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah- maybe in a controlled environment-with no live mics-monitors-bleed through ect etc.  But not on a REAL stage with a full band.

I have only meet 2 graduates of "those types" of schools that were worth anything.  And both of those would have been good-WITHOUT the school.  Because they "get it"-not looking for a "free ride".

It is about what you can actually DO-not what your resume looks like.

[Brad Weber]

About a year ago an article reported that a "School" used jobs at Guitar Center to count as "employment in the field".

I can't recall the School or I would name it.

I think the real number is closer to 0% then 20%, this is based on applications we receive for part time instructor positions (Grade K-6 Children).

A bit like the well known audio school graduate I met that was employed by a Contractor that worked with major recording studios, production houses and venues.  That may look and sound great but that person was the receptionist and had nothing to do with the work they performed, it was apparently the closest they could come to getting a job 'in the industry'.  They really seemed to think that simply attending that school would impress people and create all sorts of opportunities and were maybe just starting to realize that it didn't actually work that way.
 
As others have said, I find that it is not that you attended a certain school or spent so much on it but rather what you did with that opportunity and how much you made of that investment.  It seems simple to me, if someone's education reflects their believing it is the name brand or how much you spent that matters and not what you do with it or the results then how might that translate into their work?

[Ivan Beaver]

As others have said, I find that it is not that you attended a certain school or spent so much on it but rather what you did with that opportunity and how much you made of that investment.  It seems simple to me, if someone's education reflects their believing it is the name brand or how much you spent that matters and not what you do with it or the results then how might that translate into their work?

+1000!

Just go to any higher education program (2yr 4yr etc)-it doesn't matter.

Now look at the actual graduating class.  Some of those are going to be successful-and others will probably end up having a job that has nothing to do with their degree.

Yes they both got the same degree-went to the same classes etc.  But SOME people put a lot more effort into what they are doing than others. 

Life is not about handouts-it is about what YOU do with the opportunities that are handed to you.

People look at successful people and "think" they were simply lucky.  In some cases yes-but in many-they have worked hard and have EARNED what they have.  People forget to look at the hardship years that the successful people went through and just look at the "glory".

It is NOT about entitlement-despite what many kids think.

[Joseph D. Macry]

I graduated summa cum laude from Southwest Texas State (now Texas State) Sound Recording Technology program, which is part of Music Dept. and grants a BMu upon graduation. I did well in the studio, but my heart was in live sound, for which they taught nothing. Still, I could align analog decks and splice 2-inch tape.
Seems that within a week of graduating, the recording world went to Pro Tools. Pfft.
I didn't care, as I wanted to do live sound. I was a partner in two local sound companies that tanked, but had tons of gigs in the trenches, such as Austin's notorious 6th Street. Found a job selling PA gear at Mars Music until the chain collapsed. Then a year of corporate sound, but got fired for yelling "F***!" when a Meyer MSL-3 fell over on me. Another retail chain for a year (Brooke Mays, which also went bankrupt).
Then a friend invited me to join his audio installation company. It took a year or so to learn construction practices and techniques. Then the Project Manager got fired and I got the job. Learned bidding and estimating. No more working until 4am.
Though I do a lot of installs, the gear is usually old school stuff. Only rarely do I get to play with networking, open-architecture DSPs or digital mixers. I rarely operate the finished product, except for testing and demonstration. Boss won't (yet) let me get certifications such as Crestron or AMX, though I know I could do it.

More on the subject of graduates, the SRT program at Tx State has two Grammy-winning grads: Steve Chadie (for Los Lonely Boys) and David Gratz (Asleep At The Wheel). A couple of classmates do post for Robt Rodriguez (Spy Kids, Machete etc.). Other classmates are involved in install design, band management, teaching, live touring sound, and forensic audio.
Conversely, I have met one SRT graduate who could not tell which piece of gear in the rack is a power amp, when told to turn it off.

[Gus Housen]

My SWAG (scientific wild-ass guess) is that placement into a "real" job in recording, broadcast or live sound, within 90 days of graduation, is probably about 5%.  If you stretch that to 6 months it might be 10%-15%.  At 1 year it's probably around 25%.

These are based on watching other trade school placements... who knows, audio might be better or significantly worse.

I would say as far as a real position goes it would be less. Really 1% of people who say they "are in the biz" actually make some kind of living do it and maybe 1% of that make alot of money. You have 100's of graduates each year at each school. very few guys ( or gals)  actually doing something with it, other than working @ GC. And the ones that do, probably didnt need to go, as they have the gumption and the willingness to make it happen regardless. When went to The recording workshop of Ohio, i had already worked in prosound for several years. It was a old shop with a old school dude and I needed to learn how to use comps, gates, reverbs, parametrics, etc. and @ the time I thought i wanted to do Studio work as well. Most of the guys who attended had no clue and even less of a clue when they graduated, unless you put in the extra time and fought for midnight hours.

[ProSoundWeb Community]