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[dick rees]

Saturday headliner: 2 guitars, bass, drums (3 vox total).  Very clean arrangments.

Sunday headliner: 2 guitars, bass, drums, keys, blues harp, 2 vocalists (3 vox total).  Everybody plays everything all the time.

Saturday SPL: peaks @ 93 A/slow@50 feet.

Sunday SPL: peaks @ 93 A/slow, same distance.

Crowd reaction Saturday:  turn it up.

Crowd reaction Sunday: turn it down.

The difference between volume and noise...........

[Mac Kerr]

Crowd reaction Saturday:  turn it up.

Crowd reaction Sunday: turn it down.

The difference between volume and noise...........

I'm shocked I tell ya, shocked...

Mac

[Chris Davis]

Saturday headliner: 2 guitars, bass, drums (3 vox total).  Very clean arrangments.

Sunday headliner: 2 guitars, bass, drums, keys, blues harp, 2 vocalists (3 vox total).  Everybody plays everything all the time.

Saturday SPL: peaks @ 93 A/slow@50 feet.

Sunday SPL: peaks @ 93 A/slow, same distance.

Crowd reaction Saturday:  turn it up.

Crowd reaction Sunday: turn it down.

The difference between volume and noise...........

Hopefully you charged the headache group more, for "more musicians" or more whatever...     Betcha they don't play out as often as the other group.

[Lee Brenkman]

Crowd reaction Saturday:  turn it up.

Crowd reaction Sunday: turn it down.

The difference between volume and noise...........

If the crowd "likes" the music it can't be TOO loud, if they don't it is ALWAYS too loud.

I've experienced this with the exact same group of musicians on the same stage, in the same room, on the same night.

For that crowd the big band swing set could be mixed as loud as I wanted.  When the same band came back and started the second set (as requested by the event planners) playing Earth Wind and Fire and other 70s R&B covers it was deemed too loud at ANY volume by that particular room full of people.

[Jay Barracato]

If the crowd "likes" the music it can't be TOO loud, if they don't it is ALWAYS too loud.

I've experienced this with the exact same group of musicians on the same stage, in the same room, on the same night.

For that crowd the big band swing set could be mixed as loud as I wanted.  When the same band came back and started the second set (as requested by the event planners) playing Earth Wind and Fire and other 70s R&B covers it was deemed too loud at ANY volume by that particular room full of people.

And, of course, each of those people expect you to adjust the entire room to THEIR taste.

[dick rees]

And, of course, each of those people expect you to adjust the entire room to THEIR taste.

Here's something I just whipped up at the request of the harmonica player to send to the band leader:

Building a mix:

When building an audio mix, one primary concern is to keep each individual input as clean as possible so that when it is brought up in the mix it (and only it) increases in presence.  Any other sounds bleeding into that input will be brought up with it, thereby compromising the sonic integrity.

Besides judicious positioning of microphones on the stage, there are devices/techniques for keeping the inputs "clean": gates and expanders.  These are just two different sides of the same coin, a gate being an "on/off" device triggered by a sound of a determined level or an expander which applies gain reduction to an input gradually, again reacting to the ambient sound present at the microphone.  You can think of gating as "hard" and expansion as "soft".

This works well to give the mix engineer strong, clear sources with which to work.  The problem comes when the on-stage volume levels are high enough that there is very little difference in level between the direct/desired sound at the input and the general "stage wash".  A loud snare hit or a hot guitar amp will tend to keep opening any gates/expanders and let the entire ambient roar of stage volume directly into the microphones.  At this point the mix engineer can only walk away as the whole system/process is out of control......

Drum and amp shields are a band-aid approach to this problem.  A more desirable approach would be to choose equipment which will give the desired tone at a lower volume or to invest in custom in-ear monitors so that the player(s) can have their requisite level without compromising the overall mix.  Simply using a smaller amplifier which will reach the desired level of tube drive at a lower volume is one approach.

If you don't have a sound person on most of your gigs (where the stage sound IS the house sound), then go ahead and use that big amp and work with the rest of the band to establish a balance.  But if you're in a big hall or outdoors on stage with a sound system and an engineer, then consider using smaller, more manageable amps and getting your sound back at you via a monitor wedge or your own in-ear rig.

I predict that, if these suggestions are followed, the comments/requests the mix engineer receives will go from "turn that noise down" to "turn the music up".

Dick Rees