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[Randy Ogrodnik]

I am a professional guitarist/singer/band that needs to do some serious system upgrades (power amp & EQ). I have been using a Mackie M800 that I bought ten years ago and it has been extremely dependable until about a year ago and then distortion started showing up. It first started showing up on the hi-hat and snare from my Alesis HR-16.

Background

Last night I performed at a small neighborhood outdoor evening concert in Texas (90+ degrees).  My main board is a Mackie 1604 into my FX rack into the Mackie M800. My speakers per side are three 15" Community speakers, mid range horns, and a cabinet with eight Piezo tweeters. In the beginning the sound was fantastic and all at the event were blown away by the sound but as the evening went on about three hours later the distortion started showing up.

Equipment

Shure SM-57 mic for vocals, Korg Dw-8000 keyboard for bass, active Aria guitar into A.R.T. pre-amp/distortion rack (with Marshall compressor pedal, Cry Baby, etc) and Alesis HR-16 drummer midied into Alesis Sr-16. I run the Speakers from 1/4" speaker jacks into banana plugs and then daisy chain the other speakers with 1/4" and Speakons. I know I should run all the same jacks but the speaker cabinets are all set up differently.

My thoughts are to replace the power amp and the stereo EQ. I have researched this for weeks and taking my budget into consideration I am between Mackie (FR-1400i ($299) & FRS-1700($250)), Crown (XLS 2000 ($399)& XLS 2500 (349), or a QSC (GX5 ($399) & GX7)

I am thinking about adding a Peavey EQ215 equalizer for about $75 unless someone else has another suggestion as I am completely open to ideas and I need to do this ASAP. Thanks so much for anyone's assistance

[Ivan Beaver]

I am a professional guitarist/singer/band that needs to do some serious system upgrades (power amp & EQ). I have been using a Mackie M800 that I bought ten years ago and it has been extremely dependable until about a year ago and then distortion started showing up. It first started showing up on the hi-hat and snare from my Alesis HR-16.

Background

Last night I performed at a small neighborhood outdoor evening concert in Texas (90+ degrees).  My main board is a Mackie 1604 into my FX rack into the Mackie M800. My speakers per side are three 15" Community speakers, mid range horns, and a cabinet with eight Piezo tweeters. In the beginning the sound was fantastic and all at the event were blown away by the sound but as the evening went on about three hours later the distortion started showing up.

Equipment

Shure SM-57 mic for vocals, Korg Dw-8000 keyboard for bass, active Aria guitar into A.R.T. pre-amp/distortion rack (with Marshall compressor pedal, Cry Baby, etc) and Alesis HR-16 drummer midied into Alesis Sr-16. I run the Speakers from 1/4" speaker jacks into banana plugs and then daisy chain the other speakers with 1/4" and Speakons. I know I should run all the same jacks but the speaker cabinets are all set up differently.

My thoughts are to replace the power amp and the stereo EQ. I have researched this for weeks and taking my budget into consideration I am between Mackie (FR-1400i ($299) & FRS-1700($250)), Crown (XLS 2000 ($399)& XLS 2500 (349), or a QSC (GX5 ($399) & GX7)

I am thinking about adding a Peavey EQ215 equalizer for about $75 unless someone else has another suggestion as I am completely open to ideas and I need to do this ASAP. Thanks so much for anyone's assistance

You HAVE to change your name to full real name before the thread is locked.

How do you know itis your amp?  It could be anywhere in the signal chain.

Untill you have either measured or swapped out gear to narrow down the problem-I would not jump to conclusions.

It is very rare that amps start to distort.  Unless they run into clipping.  Usually the distortion is REALLY REALLY bad or the amp doesn't work.

I am not saying that they don't distort a  little bit-but of the thousands of amps I have worked on-I have never seen one case of a little bit of distortion.

Just sayin'

[Charlie Zureki]

You HAVE to change your name to full real name before the thread is locked.

How do you know itis your amp?  It could be anywhere in the signal chain.

Untill you have either measured or swapped out gear to narrow down the problem-I would not jump to conclusions.

It is very rare that amps start to distort.  Unless they run into clipping.  Usually the distortion is REALLY REALLY bad or the amp doesn't work.

I am not saying that they don't distort a  little bit-but of the thousands of amps I have worked on-I have never seen one case of a little bit of distortion.

Just sayin'

  +1

  and.. I think you were "turning up" as the night went on... clipping and then causing the distortion. When this distortion started, did you turn down the levels to see if it had any affect ?

   Hammer

[Brad Weber]

I am a professional guitarist/singer/band that needs to do some serious system upgrades (power amp & EQ). I have been using a Mackie M800 that I bought ten years ago and it has been extremely dependable until about a year ago and then distortion started showing up.

Last night I performed at a small neighborhood outdoor evening concert in Texas (90+ degrees).  My main board is a Mackie 1604 into my FX rack into the Mackie M800. My speakers per side are three 15" Community speakers, mid range horns, and a cabinet with eight Piezo tweeters.

I run the Speakers from 1/4" speaker jacks into banana plugs and then daisy chain the other speakers with 1/4" and Speakons. I know I should run all the same jacks but the speaker cabinets are all set up differently.

So are you saying that you have three Community speakers with a 15" woofer, some type of midrange horn and some custom cabinet with 8 piezo tweeters all daisy chained into a single amp channel of a Mackie M800?  Assuming those are is serving as the low, mid and high frequency components, respectively, of a three-way system, how are you crossing over between them?  Do you know the net impedance the amp is seeing?

I'd be concerned that you may be putting a load on the amp that is more than most low cost amps can support with any reliability.

[Randy Ogrodnik]

Just to give a background I have been a pro performing singer/musician/entertainer (seriously, all styles of music) for over thirty years so I am not a novice to using equipment and l already tried a used (but damaged) Mackie 1400i on the system and the sound when working was phenomenal. I am sure it had a lot to do with the sub sonic filter on the amp. I never sounded better. Unfortunately the amp kept over heating and would cut out.

In regard to the comment on raising my volume, never did or needed to. The distortion seemed to be most noticeable on the hi-hat from the Alesis HR-16.

I have had the current Mackie M-800 for over ten years so I decided I want to upgrade and the most logical equipment seemed to be the power amp & EQ. Though it had been more than a workhorse it has seen it's time and then some.

In reference about the Community speakers, that is three 15's per side.

The speakers have built in crossovers but I am entertaining the idea of added a three way external crossover, but I need to replace the power amp and upgrade the EQ right now.

So, that is where I am at. I appreciate the assistance and wish everyone a great July 4th holiday. Thanks.

[Tomm Williams]

Still don't understand your cabinet arrangement. You have 3 Community 15" cabs per side(at 8 ohm each?) AND a cab (or pair?) with 8 piezos?  You also make reference to mid-range horns, are these seperate from the Community cabs?.

[Ivan Beaver]

Just to give a background I have been a pro performing singer/musician/entertainer (seriously, all styles of music) for over thirty years so I am not a novice to using equipment and l already tried a used (but damaged) Mackie 1400i on the system and the sound when working was phenomenal. I am sure it had a lot to do with the sub sonic filter on the amp. I never sounded better. Unfortunately the amp kept over heating and would cut out.

In regard to the comment on raising my volume, never did or needed to. The distortion seemed to be most noticeable on the hi-hat from the Alesis HR-16.

I have had the current Mackie M-800 for over ten years so I decided I want to upgrade and the most logical equipment seemed to be the power amp & EQ. Though it had been more than a workhorse it has seen it's time and then some.

In reference about the Community speakers, that is three 15's per side.

The speakers have built in crossovers but I am entertaining the idea of added a three way external crossover, but I need to replace the power amp and upgrade the EQ right now.

So, that is where I am at. I appreciate the assistance and wish everyone a great July 4th holiday. Thanks.

It would REALLY REALLY HELP-if you provided model numbers-or photos or wiring diagrams or something.

We have no idea exactly what your setup is.  The brand  alonereally doesn't help.

Community has made many speakers over the years.  Internal crossovers? What exactly does that mean?  Different model cabients have different types of crossovers-some with high and low pass outputs-others not so.  We don't have a clue what you are dealing with.

It is like saying "I have a ford car and after awhile it doesn't run right-what is the problem?".  Year make model etc etc. are the FIRST questions.  Wihtout that-not a clue.

[Brad Weber]

Just to give a background I have been a pro performing singer/musician/entertainer (seriously, all styles of music) for over thirty years so I am not a novice to using equipment and l already tried a used (but damaged) Mackie 1400i on the system and the sound when working was phenomenal. I am sure it had a lot to do with the sub sonic filter on the amp. I never sounded better. Unfortunately the amp kept over heating and would cut out.

Might that say something about the load the amp is having to drive?  I would guess that the sub-sonic filter on the amp would likely have little relevance to distortion related to the hi-hat and snare.

In regard to the comment on raising my volume, never did or needed to.

I have had the current Mackie M-800 for over ten years so I decided I want to upgrade and the most logical equipment seemed to be the power amp & EQ. Though it had been more than a workhorse it has seen it's time and then some.

If you don't need more output, aren't overdriving the amp and are not applying a load that may be a problem for any lower priced amplifier, then I'm not clear why the amplifier would be a logical place to upgrade.

The distortion seemed to be most noticeable on the hi-hat from the Alesis HR-16.

If you had the current amp for 10 years and the distotion started occurring about a year ago then it seems that the distortion could be a result of anything in the signal path changing or of some combination of changes.  Just to be sure, did you listen to the HR-16 output to make sure the distortion was not present in its output?
 

The speakers have built in crossovers but I am entertaining the idea of added a three way external crossover, but I need to replace the power amp and upgrade the EQ right now.

Do the speakers have crossovers designed to work together in your system configuration?  Do you know the impedance of each box?  How is everything wired?  The reason everyone is asking about this is that it seems that with your system components and arrangement there is a good chance the amp may be having to drive a rather low impedance and challenging load, not a situation where you would usually want to consider a cheap amp.

[Tim Perry]

Am I correct in my reading that you have a one man band thing going here?

If so, here's my suggestion:  rethink your budget and go with a pair of active speakers. The subject of which active has been discussed here over and over.  Over the long run the ease of setup, reduced weight, pack volume, will make you never want to go back to heavy stacks again.

If you needs some whomp from the drum machine, add a single active sub.

The current crop of 'actives' are, in general, so smooth the little or no overall EQ is needed. 

[Randy Ogrodnik]

I appreciate all the input(the obvious) and opinions of those who responded but not one of the replies dealt with what I needed to know the most and that is 'what is the difference between the power amps/EQ's and which is the best for me' I listed. I only gave the other info as background to what I am doing whether anyone agrees with it or not.

"My thoughts are to replace the power amp and the stereo EQ. I have researched this for months and taking my budget into consideration I am between Mackie (FR-1400i ($299) & FRS-1700($250)), Crown (XLS 2000 ($399)& XLS 2500 (349), or a QSC (GX5 ($399) & GX7)"

I think some of y'all spend to much time trying to see how many responses you can give as opposed to helping someone out. I got no help whatsoever from any of the posts. So, if anyone can help enlighten me with the best of the power amps/EQ's I listed and why that would be greatly appreciated. My budget is what is is and that's life. I feel that the tool in my hand lies totally up to me what I do with it and not what the monetary value of the tool.

Years ago when I was touring around the Midwest I had a '61 Strat and I literally wore the frets down. So, instead of refretting the guitar, as my family gave me a Musicman guitar, which I loved, for Father's Day, I sold the Strat for $150 to a music store for the money to help with bills. As many know that guitar is worth upwards of $20k at times to collectors. I am not a collector but a craftsman. I cherish the tools I use and own, but the music I perform is much more important than the value as opposed to the quality of what I produce. That to me and many others is the bottom line.

If someone wants to donate the equipment or money for me to do the correct setup I promise I won't turn it down, but in the mean time I gotta do what I do and that means "Keeps truckin' on".

Thanks again, Randy