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[Mike Caldwell]

On your DFR11 in the row of yellow LED's how many of them are always on. If there all on all of the time that is at least one source of a chuck of level reduction in between the output of the mixer and the power amp. That's assuming the DFR11 is on the mains and not monitors.

Depending on how the DRF11 has been configured the button on the front when held down will clear the filters.
If you do clear the filters do so the with system turned down!!!

That's just one thought, could be lots of other issues.

Something that happens all the time is a church will have a system that's fine for spoken word and light music and then the day comes they expanded to a full band contemporary service and the system they have is on the verge of exploding at every service.

[David Vercoe]

Thank you all for the suggestions and advice I know this is quite a few weeks latter but the Friday after I initially posted about our problem our church's worship leader and I assessed thing and we found the problem which was right under our noses the whole time and it just took a night for a couple of hours just taking our time looking at everything to see what we found. What we found was that every single pfl button was pressed when we just set the pfl buttons on the board to just the groups and the main speaker channels if anyone is familiar with the board that we have at our church they are the four red and the two yellow faders the peaking issue was gone. Thanks again.

[Jordan Wolf]

...every single pfl button was pressed when we just set the pfl buttons on the board to just the groups and the main speaker channels...

David,

Having the PFL selected will not (on any mixing board I know of) cause audible distortion through the main outputs, but will cause inaccurate readings on the meters when multiple channels are PFL'd at the same time.

So, what you're saying is: there is no audible distortion in your system, just that the meters were reading close to clipping because multiple PFL buttons were pressed?  Is this correct, or was there audible distortion/clipping?  Who cares how it looks…how does it sound?

[David Vercoe]

David,

Having the PFL selected will not (on any mixing board I know of) cause audible distortion through the main outputs, but will cause inaccurate readings on the meters when multiple channels are PFL'd at the same time.

So, what you're saying is: there is no audible distortion in your system, just that the meters were reading close to clipping because multiple PFL buttons were pressed?  Is this correct, or was there audible distortion/clipping?  Who cares how it looks…how does it sound?

you are correct there was no audible distortion the meter was hitting the red though. I had a few of my audio volunteers notice it and bring it to my attention so there are people who care how it looks not just how it sounds. Being that it is in a church I would say I am one who cares that it looks right so when my volunteers are running it they don't think there is a problem with the board than have to go through a big explanation.

[Stu McDoniel]

Hello all,
      I am Dave Vercoe and I am the sound tech coordinator at Roxborough Presbyterian Church In the Roxborough section of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. I am a little embarrassed to hae to ask help with our situation as I have 13 years experience running sound and about 6 of that 13 is also working at a studio. So enough about myself and on to the situation. at my church our sound system is peaking out and our worship leader and I have spent quite a bit of time trying to solve the issue with a lot of research to try and fix it and have decided that what we have been doing is not fixing it so we give up trying to do it our selves and made up our minds we better ask for help and if we have to get a professional to come in than that is what we have to do but we would like to see if anyone here can help. We run two services a week our normal service on Sunday and a contemporary service on Wednesday night. The following is a run down of the equipment we have and how our praise teams are going into the system:
Equipment:
Allen and Heath GL2200 Mixing board
Peavey IP 8.5c Power amp
Shure DFR 11 EQ equalizer

Praise teams:
Sunday:
3-4 singers at a time
accustic guitar to DI box to snake
Keyboard to DI box to Snake
drumset not micd at all
sometines bass no mic or DI box
Grand Piano with mic inside

Wednesday:
3-4 singers at a time
Accustic guitar to Di Box to snake
Electric guitar with Mic on amp
Bass to DI box to snake
Grand Piano with mic inside
drum set no mic

Anyone who has any ideas welcome to help. Please reply with detailed step by step instructions to solve also if you have ideas feel free to call my cell phone I will include the number in this post my cell phone is always on I will be happy to talk to anyone who could help. My cell phone # is (484) 904-3131 if you call when I answer just let me know the call is in reference to the post on the pro sound web forums. Any one who may be on these forums that live in the area please do not hesitate to call and I will set up with you to come to the church and help us in person if you are available.
Thank you in advance.
Dave Vercoe

David...regardless of what you found here is something you should do with your system.  Get the gain structure set right.  Please google how to set gain structure on a sound system and get it right.
By the way the Holy Bible is a hammer!
Good luck

[Jim Thorn]

Thank you all for the suggestions and advice I know this is quite a few weeks latter but the Friday after I initially posted about our problem our church's worship leader and I assessed thing and we found the problem which was right under our noses the whole time and it just took a night for a couple of hours just taking our time looking at everything to see what we found. What we found was that every single pfl button was pressed when we just set the pfl buttons on the board to just the groups and the main speaker channels... the peaking issue was gone. Thanks again.

David,

Your meters still are not giving you much useful information.  The PFL/AFL buttons are really intended for troubleshooting on a temporary basis, so you can check levels at various points in the mixer's signal paths.  If you release ALL of the PFL and AFL buttons, the main meters will show the levels of the Left and Right main outputs -- the final mix being sent to the amps.  That is the conventional way to read the meters. 

With all four subgroups and the left and right main mixes having their AFL buttons pressed, the SUM of all four groups and the left and right mixes (which already contain a mix of all four subgroups) is presented to the meters and the headphone jack.  It's a confusing combination of signals, and the meters are reading higher than they would for any one of those points alone (as your experience with all of them pressed indicates).

The standard use of the PFL/AFL buttons is to temporarily solo individual inputs, or individual submixes, or individual output mixes, one at a time, in the headphones and meters.  After checking the individual source, release the button and go back to allowing the main left and right mixes to feed the headphones and meters.  There is an LED labeled PFL/AFL just below the main meters -- if it is lit, it is warning you that what you see on the meters and hear on the headphones is NOT the main output being heard by the audience.  If it is dark, you are seeing and hearing the main stereo mix.

Forgive me if I'm saying things you already know, but I saw a bit of a booby trap when you mentioned that four AFL buttons were pressed at once.  It was a common source of confusion for theater tech students in several high school auditoriums I have serviced.

Another common difficulty in my high schools was that the mixer manuals had been misplaced.  If that has happened to you, here is a link to the .pdf manuals for your mixer:
http://www.allen-heath.com/uk/Products/Pages/DiscontinuedProductDetails.aspx?productId=GL2200

Best Wishes,
Jim Thorn

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