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Author Topic: Line6 XD-V75 in a busy RF environment  (Read 13460 times)

TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Line6 XD-V75 in a busy RF environment
« on: February 10, 2012, 08:42:11 am »

I feel like I've been the unofficial (and for the record - uncompensated) spokesperson for Line6 stuff in the past week.  It's not my intent to be a fanboy, but I do think people are unnecessarily hesitant to try the Line6 stuff. 

The major concern is fear of an unknown 2.4Ghz environment, which is understandable, considering the flakiness of WiFi. 

I'm an IT guy by day and I work in a 29 story building in downtown Minneapolis.  We have an enterprise wireless network consisting of a bunch of 2.4Ghz/5Ghz access points, and if I open my laptop up, I can see about 15 wireless networks.  I brought the new XD-V75 receiver I just got to work and did a channel scan on my desk.  Here are the results:

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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Line6 XD-V75 in a busy RF environment
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2012, 08:47:41 am »

Line6 channels (not to be confused with WiFi channels - they're not the same thing) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 13 are totally clear.  Channels 6, 7, 8, 12 have a small amount of interference that may result in a slight decrease of range for those channels, but they would likely be very usable. 

In my busy RF environment, which almost certainly has more infrastructure WiFi than any small venue, I get 10 usable channels.

I understand that the big variable is the WiFi gear that patrons carry in to the performance space, but my experience is that if the infrastructure access points are locked down so that 500 people's IPhones aren't connected checking email, it's not likely a big issue.

YMMV, but hopefully this is a useful datapoint.
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Henry Cohen

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Re: Line6 XD-V75 in a busy RF environment
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2012, 11:26:53 am »

Line6 channels (not to be confused with WiFi channels - they're not the same thing) 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 13 are totally clear.  Channels 6, 7, 8, 12 have a small amount of interference that may result in a slight decrease of range for those channels, but they would likely be very usable. 

In my busy RF environment, which almost certainly has more infrastructure WiFi than any small venue, I get 10 usable channels.

I understand that the big variable is the WiFi gear that patrons carry in to the performance space, but my experience is that if the infrastructure access points are locked down so that 500 people's IPhones aren't connected checking email, it's not likely a big issue.

YMMV, but hopefully this is a useful datapoint.
I'm not sure how valid a test a single scan is. WAPs only transmit 1) when a client requests throughput and 2) when it sends a beacon, which only lasts about 10-20mS. So the question in my mind is if there were virtually no client requests (and thus the WAPs had no reason to transmit), and the single scan by the receiver happened to miss the beacon pings, is that single scan truly representative of the second to second potential activity in the spectrum?

I'm really curious to see what the avergage and median results would show if you scanned say twenty consecutive times. That question posed, I certainly agree your office RF environment is not the same as the venues you probably frequent.
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Henry Cohen

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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Line6 XD-V75 in a busy RF environment
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2012, 11:38:37 am »

I'm not sure how valid a test a single scan is. WAPs only transmit 1) when a client requests throughput and 2) when it sends a beacon, which only lasts about 10-20mS. So the question in my mind is if there were virtually no client requests (and thus the WAPs had no reason to transmit), and the single scan by the receiver happened to miss the beacon pings, is that single scan truly representative of the second to second potential activity in the spectrum?

I'm really curious to see what the avergage and median results would show if you scanned say twenty consecutive times. That question posed, I certainly agree your office RF environment is not the same as the venues you probably frequent.
You're on.  I don't know if I can do 20 scans, but I'll do at least a few more to get some more datapoints.
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Henry Cohen

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Re: Line6 XD-V75 in a busy RF environment
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2012, 11:43:58 am »

You're on.  I don't know if I can do 20 scans, but I'll do at least a few more to get some more datapoints.
Cool.
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Henry Cohen

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Brad Weber

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Re: Line6 XD-V75 in a busy RF environment
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2012, 01:43:26 pm »

I will add that universities and some corporations seem more concerned about anything potentially interfering with or taking bandwidth from their wireless networks than they are about the Wi-Fi networks interfering with the wireless microphones.

One university felt that their contract for the third-party management of their campus wireless network prohibited their installing any 'unauthorized' (i.e. not provided and managed by the third-party contractor) 2.4GHz systems.  Another college had a campus policy that any Wi-Fi equipment the college purchased was purchased through and managed by their IT department.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Line6 XD-V75 in a busy RF environment
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2012, 02:03:50 pm »

Cool.
I've had the receiver running on the scan page for the last few hours.  Most of the time the meters look like the picture below.  Channels 7 and 8 fluctuate a little, but it's actually less busy now than my earlier snapshot, for whatever reason.

I don't know if this is the case, but I suspect that when you first select "scan", the unit samples for a couple seconds before displaying the graph I attached earlier, and perhaps tallies the hits to create a graph that looks worse than it is if you just allow the scan to continue to run.

If I have time later, I'll try some WiFi data transfers to my laptop sitting a couple feet from the Line6 receiver and see what that does.  For what it's worth, I also have my IPad and IPhone sitting on and attached to my corporate WiFi network.
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Jay Barracato

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Re: Line6 XD-V75 in a busy RF environment
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2012, 02:09:22 pm »

I will add that universities and some corporations seem more concerned about anything potentially interfering with or taking bandwidth from their wireless networks than they are about the Wi-Fi networks interfering with the wireless microphones.

One university felt that their contract for the third-party management of their campus wireless network prohibited their installing any 'unauthorized' (i.e. not provided and managed by the third-party contractor) 2.4GHz systems.  Another college had a campus policy that any Wi-Fi equipment the college purchased was purchased through and managed by their IT department.

Doesn't bluetooth operate in the same frequency range? I would argue that just because it is in that frequency doesn't make it Wi-Fi.
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Jay Barracato

TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: Line6 XD-V75 in a busy RF environment
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2012, 02:11:05 pm »

I will add that universities and some corporations seem more concerned about anything potentially interfering with or taking bandwidth from their wireless networks than they are about the Wi-Fi networks interfering with the wireless microphones.

One university felt that their contract for the third-party management of their campus wireless network prohibited their installing any 'unauthorized' (i.e. not provided and managed by the third-party contractor) 2.4GHz systems.  Another college had a campus policy that any Wi-Fi equipment the college purchased was purchased through and managed by their IT department.
I can simpathize as an IT guy trying to make WiFi work, too.  Personally I'm a lot more concerned if someone puts up a rogue AP and network than if there's some ambient 2.4Ghz - it's pretty hard to control the microwave ovens, cordless phones, and whatnot on the band.

This will boil down to a business case for individual users.  Meeting rooms in corporations or larger educational institutions may have red tape battles, and potential legitimate interoperability issues with data devices.  In those cases, Line6 gear may not make sense, and/or the hurdles to get it approved may not be worth the effort.

In a lot of other situations, Line6 gear can work really well.  Hopefully as more users log hours with the technology, we'll all have better visibility as to what works well and what doesn't.
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Henry Cohen

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Re: Line6 XD-V75 in a busy RF environment
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2012, 02:37:55 pm »

Doesn't bluetooth operate in the same frequency range? I would argue that just because it is in that frequency doesn't make it Wi-Fi.
You are correct on both counts. WiFi is merely the consortium brand name for the IEEE 802.11_ transmission scheme standard that operates in 2.4GHz as well as 5.8GHz.

There's a lot of other equipment out there utilizing non-WiFi architectures (DSSS, FHSS and TDMA for example) that operate in the 2.4GHz band, including (as TJ mentioned, and my favorite noise generator) the microwave oven.
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Henry Cohen

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Re: Line6 XD-V75 in a busy RF environment
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2012, 02:37:55 pm »


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