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Author Topic: Insert snake with multipin connector  (Read 8810 times)

Sam Feine

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Insert snake with multipin connector
« on: December 24, 2011, 02:53:49 PM »

Hi all, quick introduction,
Long time reader first time poster,
I live in Houston where I do sound for a small band,

Anyway, I am looking to make / buy an insert snake to connect between my foh rack and my console,
I need 8 lines of insert trs on one end to ts insert ends on the other end,
In the same snake I would like 4 lines of balanced xlr 2 in each direction,
To top it all off I would like it to have it all route through a multipin connector for quick setup and take down...

Is there a pre made solution out there or is this something which I would have to make?

Also, if I do need to make it myself, does anyone have any tips on wiring multipins,
would I need to allocate two or three pins to each connection (could I just make a common ground pin for everything?)

Any help would be greatly appreciated...
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Lee Douglas

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Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2011, 03:12:16 PM »


Anyway, I am looking to make / buy an insert snake to connect between my foh rack and my console,
I need 8 lines of insert trs on one end to ts insert ends on the other end,
In the same snake I would like 4 lines of balanced xlr 2 in each direction,
To top it all off I would like it to have it all route through a multipin connector for quick setup and take down...

Is there a pre made solution out there or is this something which I would have to make?

One of these (ask them about modifying for XLRs and possibly for a larger fan out as needed):
http://www.audiopile.net/products/Patch_snakes/EDAC_Patch_Snakes/EDAC_Patch_Snakes.shtml

One of these:
http://www.audiopile.net/products/Electronics/PFQ-101/PFQ-101.shtml

And a combination of these in the rack to suit your needs:
http://www.audiopile.net/products/Mic_Instr_Cables/MP_Adaptor_Cbls/Adaptor_Cables_2.shtml

You might also be able to modify an existing patch snake, but I think separartes peices may be better for wire management in the rack.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2011, 03:16:07 PM by Lee Douglas »
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Tim Padrick

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Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2011, 03:42:33 PM »

Figure out how many lines you need.  Then increase it by at least 50%.
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Greg_Cameron

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Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2011, 04:21:04 PM »

Hi all, quick introduction,
Long time reader first time poster,
I live in Houston where I do sound for a small band,

Anyway, I am looking to make / buy an insert snake to connect between my foh rack and my console,
I need 8 lines of insert trs on one end to ts insert ends on the other end,
In the same snake I would like 4 lines of balanced xlr 2 in each direction,
To top it all off I would like it to have it all route through a multipin connector for quick setup and take down...

Is there a pre made solution out there or is this something which I would have to make?

Also, if I do need to make it myself, does anyone have any tips on wiring multipins,
would I need to allocate two or three pins to each connection (could I just make a common ground pin for everything?)

Any help would be greatly appreciated...

If you have the money, you can have Whirlwind build you that configuration with a MASS connectors (W1/W2) for the multi pin. The build quality will be as good as you can get.

Greg
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Bob Charest

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Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2011, 07:33:19 PM »

...I am looking to make / buy an insert snake to connect between my foh rack and my console,
I need 8 lines of insert trs on one end to ts insert ends on the other end,
In the same snake I would like 4 lines of balanced xlr 2 in each direction,
To top it all off I would like it to have it all route through a multipin connector for quick setup and take down...
Redco Audio made one for me that I specified. You can also use their web configuration tool here if the choices fit what you need, or call them. I was very happy with both their customer service and build quality.

Quote
Is there a pre made solution out there or is this something which I would have to make?

Also, if I do need to make it myself, does anyone have any tips on wiring multipins,
would I need to allocate two or three pins to each connection (could I just make a common ground pin for everything?)

Any help would be greatly appreciated...

If you're going to make it yourself, (I had to make the other end of the multipin as it went into a breakout box for the backline and drum mics that I was making) my experience was that the only way for me to achieve the result I wanted was to use the appropriate crimping tool for the Whirlwind multipin connector... very expensive even purchased used. I haven't had any problems with the setup and it's been in use for almost a year now, but I think having either Redco or Whirlwind make what you want would be a good way to go - you won't regret it. I already commented on Redco, and everything I've ever bought from Whirlwind has been top quality.

Regarding connections, 3 pins per connection is what to do. Here's a Whirlwind W3 wiring diagram showing how each channel is pinned depending on whether the connector is output or input.

Hope that's useful.

Best regards,
Bob Charest
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Sam Feine

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Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2011, 09:41:44 PM »

Thank you all for the help, based on what you guys are saying I will probably check with whirlwind to see about getting one custom built though depending on price, I might just tough it out and build it myself which would also give me the ability to expand it in the future to fit my needs. Either way it should make my life a lot easier not having to detangle and stow all of my insert cables / lines to my drive rack every time that I set it all up...
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2011, 02:18:46 AM »

Thank you all for the help, based on what you guys are saying I will probably check with whirlwind to see about getting one custom built though depending on price, I might just tough it out and build it myself which would also give me the ability to expand it in the future to fit my needs. Either way it should make my life a lot easier not having to detangle and stow all of my insert cables / lines to my drive rack every time that I set it all up...
Sam,

I, personally, would recommend simply going with TRS connectors on both ends of the snake.  When you upgrade to more professional gear with balanced connections, you'll thank yourself.  Also, interfacing with rented or in-house gear is made much easier by going that way.

If I find myself needing to use unbalanced inserts, then I go for this Hosa adapter to take care of patching in correctly.  You may have to apply some makeup gain (~6dB or so since you're losing one leg of the balanced line - and, thus, halving the Voltage), but any piece of kit today should be able to handle that task without issue.
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Dave Dermont

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Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2011, 02:10:07 AM »

Thank you all for the help, based on what you guys are saying I will probably check with whirlwind to see about getting one custom built though depending on price, I might just tough it out and build it myself which would also give me the ability to expand it in the future to fit my needs. Either way it should make my life a lot easier not having to detangle and stow all of my insert cables / lines to my drive rack every time that I set it all up...

The Audiopile stuff Lee Douglas suggests is the cheap & dirty solution.

Mount the EDAC patch bay on a rear rack rail with the TRS jacks facing in. Get an EDAC to TRS patch snake. Connect the rack gear to the patch pay with the 1TRS-to-2TS insert cables you have now.

For the XLR lines, just replace the needed number of TRS connectors with XLRs of proper gender. Hook up to the patch bay with an XLR to TRS cable.

It'll cost ya a little over $300.00, plus the labor to replace four connectors.

To do it yourself properly, you'd have to invest at least that much in tools.

A more elegant solution will cost considerably more.

Reliable cables are always a good investment.
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Jordan Wolf

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Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2011, 10:01:35 AM »


It'll cost ya a little over $300.00, plus the labor to replace four connectors.

To do it yourself properly, you'd have to invest at least that much in tools.
And then there's the testing and figuring out which pins you need to re-crimp.  Multipinning is an art form - snipping the wires to just the right length, taking off just the right amount of insulation, etc.  It takes time, a number of mistakes, and money to learn how to do it right.
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brian maddox

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Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2011, 12:24:14 PM »

And then there's the testing and figuring out which pins you need to re-crimp.  Multipinning is an art form - snipping the wires to just the right length, taking off just the right amount of insulation, etc.  It takes time, a number of mistakes, and money to learn how to do it right.

+100

it's a great skill to have, but not one worth learning unless you think you're going to be building/servicing a LOT of multipins...  [LOT = 30 or more]  i learned it, but on someone else's dime.  don't think i would have wanted to pay the bill for my own mistakes...
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NickStone

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Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2011, 09:54:29 PM »

The audiopile stuff is good but when going with any multi care has to be taken depending on which type of connector you go with (caps ,empty pin blocks ect). Far as doing your own Multi I would advise against it.  I was all ready to do my own mult on a 40ch snake and couldn't get the balls to chop the end off my snake. Probably just as well.

If you shop around on the used market you should be able to find a Whirlwind W1 or W2 cheap. You might have to configure the ends to your liking however that's alot simpler then working on a multi. I just bought a W2 insert snake for less then 200.00. 

FWIW I have a 12ch EWI insert snake like new if you choose to not go with a multi. Good luck.
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Lee Douglas

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Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2011, 10:20:53 PM »

The Audiopile stuff Lee Douglas suggests is the cheap & dirty solution.

That's me!  Cheap and dirty! ;D

I live in Houston where I do sound for a small band,

Had Sam not said this, I would have definitely steered in a different direction.  The budget for a small band dictates that conveniences be financially managed as well.  Frankly, with a single operator managing the system, I think that the Audiopile solution should be durable enough.  It's when local stage hands with no financial stake in the system start handling it that people get very careless very quickly.  Like watching a horn player trying to get off a Speakon connector with vice grips.  I wish I were kidding...  ???
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Geoff Doane

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Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2011, 10:34:47 PM »

Either way it should make my life a lot easier not having to detangle and stow all of my insert cables / lines to my drive rack every time that I set it all up...

Do you have a doghouse built into the console case?

If not, I don't really see the point of putting in a multi-pin disconnect.  If you have to plug the cables into the console every time you set up, you might as well leave them connected at the FX end, and just label them at the console end.  When you pack up, coil the cables and stow them in the back of the rack.  Bundling the insert or FX inputs and outputs in a logical fashion will help speed up the setup.  A multi-pin really only helps if your setup is the same every time.

GTD
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Sam Feine

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Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2011, 03:23:21 PM »

Thank you all agin for all of the help...

"get off a Speakon connector with vice grips" WOW, thats pretty bad, hope he didn't break it too badly..

Also, in response to Geoff, I have a newer venice (F model) and at the time that I got it there were no pre made cases around for them so when I had a flight case made up for it I made sure that it had a dog house built in. Having it has been really handy especially when a few months ago I had an outdoor theater show. The nature of the show was that I needed to set everything up relatively quickly and take it down every day, nothing really changed day to day so I could store the cables and mics which I needed in the dog house for quick and "easy" setup.
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Troy Lourens

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Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2011, 10:54:56 PM »

Re wiring your own multi pin.. Ive done it with amphenol connectors. I have whirlwind sub snakes that i needed to multi pin for quick connect and disconnect to our IEM rig. I bought the insertion tool and guide pin and went to work soldering (i decided to go with soldering as i couldnt justify spending $800 AUD on the crimping tool..) and heatshrinking. It really wasnt as difficult as some make out but it definitely took a chunk of time and i was glad to see the end of it esp as i was doing this in down time.

I think multi pin connections are super handy and worthwhile doing when its for a rig thats yours. Just keep some non multipin solutions handy for those times when yhou need to interface with gear thats not yours.
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Insert snake with multipin connector
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2011, 10:54:56 PM »


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