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Author Topic: "Best bang for the buck" line-array system for 12-15k  (Read 46001 times)

Bob Leonard

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Re: "Best bang for the buck" line-array system for 12-15k
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2011, 10:19:08 PM »

Rule 1: Must Bi-Amp 725.

Rule 2: Read Rule 1

Why?
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BOSTON STRONG........
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: "Best bang for the buck" line-array system for 12-15k
« Reply #31 on: November 25, 2011, 12:08:19 AM »


Why?

I'm not sure.  Whatever someone may dislike about the 725 is unlikely to get "fixed" solely with bi-amping.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: "Best bang for the buck" line-array system for 12-15k
« Reply #32 on: November 25, 2011, 08:22:04 AM »

Tom,
I'm not a huge fan of the 722 myself, although they certainly can and will out perform other products of their type and size. I think you may have noticed over the years that I am almost anal where sound quality is concerned. At lower volumes I'll agree the VRX may sound better than the 722. However, I don't feel the same can be said when comparing that same VRX to the 725s, one of the reasons I did not move to the VRX a while back, and the reason I replaced all of my 722s with 725s.
I'll reserve some judgement since I've not listened critically to the 725s, but as Chuck said, as far as I know they have the same tweeter/horn as the 722s.  My complaint of distortion is definitely north of the cones, so I would assume that the 725s would have the same issue that I don't like. 

My dislike of the character of the 722s was not only at loud volume - playing about 85dB revealed the same thing.  For the record - I don't find anything wrong with the SRX series for rock and roll - they are well made and a pile of noise comes out of them.  For the higher fidelity corp/church stuff that I do, they're not at the top of my list.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 08:43:48 AM by TJ (Tom) Cornish »
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Chuck Simon

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Re: "Best bang for the buck" line-array system for 12-15k
« Reply #33 on: November 25, 2011, 08:33:56 AM »

I think we are in agreement, T.J.  If you don't like the high end in the 722, you're not going to like the 725 either.  I found the 932 lacking in a rock and roll type environment, but I think they would sound  great for other applications.
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: "Best bang for the buck" line-array system for 12-15k
« Reply #34 on: November 25, 2011, 08:43:23 AM »

Tom,
I don't know what you use for keys, but I suppliment our backline with Roland XV-3080 sound modules using all six outputs to seperate instruments. I know what your talking about and agree that the 722 can actually start to growl if pushed really hard. The 725 is actually just the opposite of the 722. The transition from driver to driver is very smooth and the 15s do keys justice in a big way. I actually route B3 and piano to their own seperate channels on the APB pro house and the realism is beyond compare. This is one reason I seperate the backline from the vocals and EQ each instrument independently. Complex in some ways, simplistic in other ways.
I've played keys seriously for over 20 years.  My current axes are a Kurzweil PC3X and a Korg Oasys.  From reading your posts over the years I see how you have pursued guitar tone.  I've taken a similar path on the keys side. 

Over the years I've owned many of the big workstations - Alesis QS series, Yamaha EX5 (same sounds as original Motif), Roland XP-80 (still have it and is still one of my favorite boards, though I don't use it currently), Korg Triton (which sucked and was a mistake for me), Various Kurzweil PC2s and K2600s, briefly a Motif ES, briefly a Roand Fantom (also a huge mistake and categorically worse than the XP-80), etc.  I still have a Roland XV-5080, which gets occasional use in a very large live rig backing up the PC3X.

What I've learned from that expensive and depreciating pile of gear is that as the fidelity of the board increases, the fidelity of the PA has to keep up, or else you're throwing money away.  Electric pianos are easy, as they're "guitarish" in their frequency range.  Hammond stuff sounds passible through most decent PAs if the source is good (I have a hardware Korg CX-3, but now principally use the soft CX-3 inside my Oasys).  Acoustic pianos are the real PA killer, and are really hard to get sounding hi-fi.

I started writing my naughty and nice lists of systems that I've had occasion to use and listen to somewhat critically, but I think I've swerved the topic enough. 
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: "Best bang for the buck" line-array system for 12-15k
« Reply #35 on: November 25, 2011, 08:48:06 AM »

I think we are in agreement, T.J.  If you don't like the high end in the 722, you're not going to like the 725 either.  I found the 932 lacking in a rock and roll type environment, but I think they would sound  great for other applications.
I can definitely see how the VRX932 would run out of gas doing R&R.  Thankfully we all have more than one choice of speaker for our different applications.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: "Best bang for the buck" line-array system for 12-15k
« Reply #36 on: November 25, 2011, 02:50:35 PM »

I'll reserve some judgement since I've not listened critically to the 725s, but as Chuck said, as far as I know they have the same tweeter/horn as the 722s.  My complaint of distortion is definitely north of the cones, so I would assume that the 725s would have the same issue that I don't like. 

My dislike of the character of the 722s was not only at loud volume - playing about 85dB revealed the same thing.  For the record - I don't find anything wrong with the SRX series for rock and roll - they are well made and a pile of noise comes out of them.  For the higher fidelity corp/church stuff that I do, they're not at the top of my list.

Tom,
The 725 is a horse of a different color. Not only do the 15s handle any amount of power better than the 722 (IMO), but the transition between drivers is smoother as well. Regardless that the compression driver is the same for both boxes it should be noted that the crossover circuit is not the same. I used 722s for vocals only in the past and found them to be a decent fit for that application. However, within the past 6 months I have replaced all of my 722s with 725s. Those boxes combined with the right processing and power and attached to my APB board have a sound as good as almost any cabinet I have listened to in the past 45 years. I suppose if more people weren't put off by the 100lb weight of the box then more people would own them. Too bad that in todays world most people put size before tone.
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BOSTON STRONG........
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I did a gig for Otis Elevator once. Like every job, it had it's ups and downs.

Tim Padrick

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Re: "Best bang for the buck" line-array system for 12-15k
« Reply #37 on: November 26, 2011, 05:24:37 AM »

I find the VRX to be unusable.  Sound good 20 to 30 degrees off axis, are exceedingly forward any closer to on axis.
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Jim Hodges

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Re: "Best bang for the buck" line-array system for 12-15k
« Reply #38 on: November 30, 2011, 03:57:32 AM »

Best bang for the buck line-array system for a maximum of 800-1000 people which incorporate the following characteristics.
Powered Cabs
Budget 12-15k
Portability is high Priority
Clean Crisp mids & highs
Must have more of a "power punch" for bass rather than a vibratory shake.
Would prefer used for the purpose of depreciation savings but New is fine also.
Thanks for your help.

You don't say what type of music you are playing, but you might want to look at something like the A-Line Acoustics Emma system.  Fits your budget, and I know of users who have covered 1000-seat areas with this system with ease.  If you need more bass, add aux-fed subs and you're good to go.  Transport and setup is very quick and easy. 

Of course, you also don't state the types of venues you are playing but they are assumed to be standard clubs with single level seating/dancing. 

Jim
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Spenser Hamilton

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Re: "Best bang for the buck" line-array system for 12-15k
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2011, 03:20:57 PM »


Why?

I found a large increase in fidelity once we starting bi-amping our 725's, it's especially noticeable when you go back to running passive, they just sound better bi-amped to my ears.
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Re: "Best bang for the buck" line-array system for 12-15k
« Reply #39 on: November 30, 2011, 03:20:57 PM »


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