ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Down

Author Topic: amateur's ruining the market  (Read 14239 times)

Kim Guibord

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 54
    • http://www.broadwayproductionslive.com
amateur's ruining the market
« on: February 13, 2011, 06:07:22 pm »

I have been in production for well over 18 years now, have learned alot, and expect to always learn something new, I feel my pricing is fair, use really good gear, and my customer service is also very good, We now have a couple of new sound Companys that provide full sound & lighting @ "giving it away" rates which makes it tough for us guy's that do this for our living & and have a good history.
Just had a previous Client tell me " why would I pay your price when I get it for almost half from this other guy, I did not reply to him, but my thought is this other guy prices soooo low because of his inexperience, I was at one of his shows, 3 double 18" and 2 tops per side, absolutely no low end, I mean like if the amps were off and alot of mid/hi feedback for the majority of the bands first set... I just tell people now...you get what you pay for.
Logged
Kim

Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6592
Re: amateur's ruining the market
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2011, 09:02:09 pm »

Please forgive me for this, but I wonder ....... if the deciding factor for these clients is low cost, then it would seem that at one time you were the lowest cost option.  That is no longer the case and the club/band market continues its downward spiral.  Have you considered seeking other applications for your gear and experience?  Bands have not been a particularly lucrative market for a while now.
Logged
 Neo-Luddite, Rocket Surgeon
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2639
Re: amateur's ruining the market
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2011, 09:31:29 pm »

How about pros ruining the market.  Like the one that comes down here for winter from a cold state and under cuts all the big boys by about 50%????  Gets him work for half the year and ruins the market for our local high end professional providers for the entire year!

Some promoters only care about price and you can't do anything about that.  Some care about relationships and trust, you can control that.

Raise your prices a little higher and when you are asked why your prices are even higher explain that you never want to be the cheapest because the cheapest will alway be worth what they are paid!
Logged
Ryan Jenkins
"Two days until the end of when I don't know what to think.  Three days until I start the cycle all over again!"

Please visit my website at http://www.murphygirl.com

brian maddox

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 115
Re: amateur's ruining the market
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2011, 11:28:24 pm »

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS wrote on Sun, 13 February 2011 21:31

How about pros ruining the market.  Like the one that comes down here for winter from a cold state and under cuts all the big boys by about 50%????  Gets him work for half the year and ruins the market for our local high end professional providers for the entire year!

Some promoters only care about price and you can't do anything about that.  Some care about relationships and trust, you can control that.

Raise your prices a little higher and when you are asked why your prices are even higher explain that you never want to be the cheapest because the cheapest will alway be worth what they are paid!


there is an interesting thing that happens when you price your services.  when you price then low, you attract people for whom price is the selling point.  when you price high [some would call it reasonable] you attract people for whom quality is paramount.  this second group will rarely turn into a 'i need it cheaper' customer.  the first will remain that way for as long your relationship lasts.

fwiw, this issue is not new, or different, or 'worse than ever'.  there may be regional fluctuations, but people have been low-balling entertainment gigs for decades, mostly because they're 'cool' and fun to do.  if this is happening in your region, the solution is simple.  stop going after all the entertainment gigs.  if the thought of doing a teleconference, or a dinner, or a corporate event [or God forbid, wearing a tie] makes you want to break out in hives, then guess what...  you are one of those people who are doing this because it's 'cool' and fun to do.  and that's fine.  but don't expect to ever be able to extricate yourself from the feedback loop of price focused clients.

my dos centavos

brian
Logged
_____________________________________

brian maddox
brianm@fcfchurch.com
www.fcfchurch.com

'do not trifle with the affairs of dragons....
       ....  for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup'

Mark Gensman

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 86
    • http://www.groundzerosound.com
Re: amateur's ruining the market
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2011, 02:57:45 am »

This is called the "drawbridge" syndrome.

"I'm here so raise the drawbridge and don't allow anyone else"..

Did most of you start off by charging top dollar? Did you care at all about established sound contractors when you decided to start doing it or did you work for very little to get known and established?

It's called business.

Logged
Mark G.

Mike Christy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1185
    • http://www.piscessound.com
Re: amateur's ruining the market
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2011, 12:27:45 pm »

As a reference point I "started out" charging the going rate, but they were small gigs that Rainbow and Clegg and Audioeast and Moonlight probably would not bother with.

I got repeat biz because of quality, and service, not rates.

With the help of this site I found a simple formula, a percentage of the cost of the gear required to do the job properly, an hourly rate for labor/engineering, and then cross-renting or transportation costs. Its all in a spread sheet.

That formula is my standard and is in line for part time providers, but I do not believe I am under cutting anyone, and do not want to take biz away from anyone, there is plenty of work around, and Im too busy as it is do every gig.

A good point is a recent quote, where I found out after the fact much more about the gig. I had to redo the quote, and explained to the customer why it went up, by 33%. I stood fast by the new numbers, and the client finally understood my reasonaing, and evenually came around and accepted it.

Anyone is a complete fool to do this work as a hobby or to undercut. There is too much work and time involved, for little return, especially at the lower levels.

Mike

Logged
Pisces Sound
Seacoast New Hampshire
Southern Maine

Guy Johnson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 314
    • http://www.myspace.com/johnsonsound
Re: amateur's ruining the market
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2011, 08:57:32 am »

Yes, I've had hobbyists / rich kids / astute business-men under-bid me, and if you lose the job, then it's just tough.

However, if the client goes on about how they love the care you put in, and your sound-quality, and then drop you, it can grate. But then they may have overwhelming financial reasons.

However, if the client goes on about how they love the care you put in, and the sound-quality, and then drop you, it can grate. AND ... if you are doing it cheap as a bit of a favour (as it's interesting work, not usually on a Friday or Saturday) —  and they STILL drop you ... then you're into the realm of personality, politics or the client just fancies a change, which is fair enough.

So keep soldiering on, keep up the good work, price not-too-cheap, and take on any other work there may be, from wiring to mowing grass to bar-work. Actually, bar-work or waiting (on table!) is essential training for an engineer: Being polite, doing a good job under stress, and dealing with loads of different people.
Logged

Guy Johnson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 314
    • http://www.myspace.com/johnsonsound
Re: amateur's ruining the market
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2011, 08:57:32 am »

oops, was double post here. Always a first time!
Logged

Darius James

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22
Re: amateur's ruining the market
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2011, 10:24:33 am »

My area has a particular bad situation with free-be jobs. People who organize events in the area believe sound and light is something that is 100% donation based. After months of looking at it through objective eyes I have found the source. I know I am going to sound like a monster for saying it but here are my findings. Relay for life is to blame for our down spiral in live sound work, the bands are getting in line to do the jobs for free. Now the soccer mom who plans these events also think they are promoters since they did this and run the local festivals. They find the same bands who do it for free or so cheap they cannot be real artists. Now in their head they once again feel the sound and lights should be free since it is also a benefit for their community. Now we are left with a ton of fairs and festivals in the local area with sound companies fighting over the free work with promises of we will pay you next year, or just for advertisement.
Logged

Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6592
Re: amateur's ruining the market
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2011, 12:46:11 pm »

Darius James wrote on Tue, 15 February 2011 09:24

My area has a particular bad situation with free-be jobs. People who organize events in the area believe sound and light is something that is 100% donation based. After months of looking at it through objective eyes I have found the source. I know I am going to sound like a monster for saying it but here are my findings. Relay for life is to blame for our down spiral in live sound work....  


You are quite wrong.  It's not Relay for Life, it's this woman:

index.php/fa/34952/0/
Logged
 Neo-Luddite, Rocket Surgeon
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
Pages: [1] 2 3  All   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.091 seconds with 16 queries.