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Author Topic: danley subs to danley tops time alignment/phase align  (Read 12868 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: danley subs to danley tops time alignment/phase align-Measurement location
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2011, 02:03:46 pm »

leon garrity wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 13:27

Hi its the same box that has failed  drivers its the hi driver the bms,after inspection it was a very tiny burn or break in the copper coil,maybe i have run them a little high but say if at the minute it was say an 800 watt amp on instead of the Fp3400 then it would be very quiet. i do mean quiet.

I love my danleys just trying to eradicate problems i have.

Leon.

800 watts would only be 3dB down from what you have.  Maybe you have a cable issue-a partial short can cause all kinds of problems.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Ivan Beaver

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Re: danley subs to danley tops time alignment/phase align
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2011, 02:08:24 pm »

Art Welter wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 13:44

[Rather than going over sub alignment in detail, I’d suggest doing a search, the subject has been covered in the Lounge many times.


I am working on a paper in which I will be measuring REAL cabinets (no computer models), and using the various different methods and showing the MEASURED results and how the alignment changes with freq and so forth.

Hopefully this will help explain the idea.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Jeff Bailie

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Re: danley subs to danley tops time alignment/phase align
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2011, 03:44:07 pm »

Hi Leon.

Sorry if I am mistaken, But are you not the same person who has had problems with Sm60's since there debut?  I have read over your posts for months now. I would get into your system prossesor and make sure you have it setup right.  It sounds to me like you have some sort of Autogain or a compressor engaged or something...

Have you tried pluging the speakers directly into the amp and using full range signal? Or checked to see if your amp has processing that you may have left on?  Something is wrong, But like Ivan says It doesn't sound like the cabinet.  I would get into the signal flow of things. Maybe reset your processor back to factory settings and start all over.  

If all else fails, send it in to get looked at.

I Delay my Sh50's about 10 feet or so to my Labhorns.. I do this by ear. If I use reference material that has a sharp 4 on the floor beat(techno) I can hear when the kick is aligned.

When I use subs in a stereo fashion what I really notice is the nodes and anti-nodes.  As you walk from one side of the venue to the other you can hear a fan like splay of unevenness in the coverage.  In a mono style fashion this wont happen.  

I don't know what to tell you about the phasing problem. Again, I think it is your signal processing.  If you had audible phasing problems with your speakers. It would only be noticeable where your two signals overlap at the crossover point.  You should try separating the crossover point so they don't overlap and see what that sounds like.  

And my last suggestion is to try a different system processor.  

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: danley subs to danley tops time alignment/phase align
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2011, 04:57:31 pm »

Jeff Bailie wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 15:44

Hi Leon.

Sorry if I am mistaken, But are you not the same person who has had problems with Sm60's since there debut?  I have read over your posts for months now. I would get into your system prossesor and make sure you have it setup right.  It sounds to me like you have some sort of Autogain or a compressor engaged or something...

Have you tried pluging the speakers directly into the amp and using full range signal? Or checked to see if your amp has processing that you may have left on?  Something is wrong, But like Ivan says It doesn't sound like the cabinet.  I would get into the signal flow of things. Maybe reset your processor back to factory settings and start all over.  

If all else fails, send it in to get looked at.

I Delay my Sh50's about 10 feet or so to my Labhorns.. I do this by ear. If I use reference material that has a sharp 4 on the floor beat(techno) I can hear when the kick is aligned.

When I use subs in a stereo fashion what I really notice is the nodes and anti-nodes.  As you walk from one side of the venue to the other you can hear a fan like splay of unevenness in the coverage.  In a mono style fashion this wont happen.  

I don't know what to tell you about the phasing problem. Again, I think it is your signal processing.  If you had audible phasing problems with your speakers. It would only be noticeable where your two signals overlap at the crossover point.  You should try separating the crossover point so they don't overlap and see what that sounds like.  

And my last suggestion is to try a different system processor.  




As with any problem, you have to accuractly describe the problem.  Is the "phasing" between the ops or between the tops and the subs.  And is it per side or in the middle or where?

What sort of freq range is involved?

Etc.

Your delay time may be correct for the Lab subs-since they are a regular horn and the pathlength is pretty much the length of the horn.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Jeff Bailie

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Re: danley subs to danley tops time alignment/phase align
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2011, 07:18:34 pm »

Yes, Ivan always has a very well defined way of explaining what I am trying to say.

I was just trying to help come up with some ideas to help navigate around the system possessor. If by chance the speakers sound normal directly off the amp, then you know for sure that the problem is not the speakers.

I am not recommending that you run the speakers at high output levels without proper high pass.      

I would do some listening and some trouble shooting and try to fix your ongoing problems with the SM60's Leon.

In comparison, My SH50's seemed to come Plug-N-Play...

After months of issues with your brand new SM60's people are curious as to weather you have a broken SM60 or a signal flow problem.  I just want your speakers to work right so I can ask you how they sound.. Cool  



 
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leon garrity

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Re: danley subs to danley tops time alignment/phase align
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2011, 08:19:45 pm »

Hi Jeff,

ive used the EAW UX8800 processor from the moment i got the Danleys in just the ordinary DSP type processor mode,ive buzzed all my cables,checked all my loudspeaker cables.

All the cables are Van Damme cables which are the touring choice of cables in the UK,all connectors are Neutrik.

The Ux8800 is set to

25hz LPF and 79.2 HPF for the Subs
79.2 LPF and 20khz HPF for the Tops/ 24db BW for the slopes with a 6db BW for the high end.
Centre speaker set to 120 LPF/20KHZ HPF

No Compression or Limiting on the UX8800.

Amps set to 35db of input gain, UX8800 set to normal no gain added or subtracted.

Im Using a Digital desk....So i ask does the Latency of the desk and the latency of the processor have bearing on sound,the processor i believe to be 3.13ms of latency.so say the desk had 1.5ms of latency,that would be nearly 5ms of latency plus any time alignment issues reguarding tops to subs.I do apologise for not understanding things but its a learning process.

many thanks Leon




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leon garrity

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Re: danley subs to danley tops time alignment/phase align
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2011, 08:23:28 pm »

If there was phasing issues at the crossover point how much does it affect?????

my guess the phasing just wouldnt stop at say a crossover point of 80Hz,would it affect frequencies to either side of the crossover point.

Leon
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: danley subs to danley tops time alignment/phase align
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2011, 08:47:39 pm »

leon garrity wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 20:19

Hi Jeff,

ive used the EAW UX8800 processor from the moment i got the Danleys in just the ordinary DSP type processor mode,ive buzzed all my cables,checked all my loudspeaker cables.

All the cables are Van Damme cables which are the touring choice of cables in the UK,all connectors are Neutrik.

The Ux8800 is set to

25hz LPF and 79.2 HPF for the Subs
79.2 LPF and 20khz HPF for the Tops/ 24db BW for the slopes with a 6db BW for the high end.
Centre speaker set to 120 LPF/20KHZ HPF

No Compression or Limiting on the UX8800.

Amps set to 35db of input gain, UX8800 set to normal no gain added or subtracted.

Im Using a Digital desk....So i ask does the Latency of the desk and the latency of the processor have bearing on sound,the processor i believe to be 3.13ms of latency.so say the desk had 1.5ms of latency,that would be nearly 5ms of latency plus any time alignment issues reguarding tops to subs.I do apologise for not understanding things but its a learning process.

many thanks Leon



If those are actually your settings, then that could be most of your problem.

You need to reverse all of your high and low pass settings.  Meaning you need to turn all of your highpass filters into lowpass filters and the lowpass filters into highpass filters.

You have them all backwards.

The latency of the digital desk is not going to affect anything that you have been talking about.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Ivan Beaver

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Re: danley subs to danley tops time alignment/phase align
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2011, 08:51:31 pm »

leon garrity wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 20:23

If there was phasing issues at the crossover point how much does it affect?????

my guess the phasing just wouldnt stop at say a crossover point of 80Hz,would it affect frequencies to either side of the crossover point.

Leon

When you are talking about "phasing issues" maybe it would help to try and better explain what you really mean.  There may be a confusion of terms here.

Not having the phase lined up where the levels are equal can result in notches in the freq response.  
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

leon garrity

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Re: danley subs to danley tops time alignment/phase align
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2011, 08:52:29 pm »

Sorry just got the HPF/LPF on the message wrong way around.LOL

cheers
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