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Author Topic: LA 400 + SH-50  (Read 13195 times)

Helge A. Bentsen

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LA 400 + SH-50
« on: January 04, 2011, 12:14:52 pm »

I currently own four Danley SH-50, but no subwoofers. I've been offered 8 Eaw LA400 for a reasonable price, but I can't try them before I buy them (distance related ).

Have anybody tried using LA400 and SH-50s together?
Opinions?

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Silas Pradetto

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Re: LA 400 + SH-50
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2011, 12:32:08 pm »

If that's enough sub for your needs and you have the capability to align the SH50s to the horn subs, you will be fine.
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Art Welter

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Re: LA 400 + SH-50
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2011, 12:35:51 pm »

Helge A. Bentsen wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 10:14

I currently own four Danley SH-50, but no subwoofers. I've been offered 8 Eaw LA400 for a reasonable price, but I can't try them before I buy them (distance related ).

Have anybody tried using LA400 and SH-50s together?
Opinions?



I have not used the two together, but:

The LA400 can get loud, but does not go very deep, it is rated +/- 3dB 45 to 250, but is already 10 dB down at 40 Hz. In a block of 8, they will go lower, but not much.

The SH 50 is also 10 dB down at 40 Hz.

Unless you are just looking for more kick, you would be more happy with subs that can provide another octave below the top cabinet.
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Helge A. Bentsen

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Re: LA 400 + SH-50
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2011, 06:02:56 pm »

Thank you for your replies  Smile

I did a quick comparison between one LA400

http://eaw.com/info/EAW/Loudspeaker_Product_Info/Current_Lou dspeakers/LA400/LA400_SPECS_rev1.pdf

and one SB1000

http://www.eaw.com/info/EAW/Loudspeaker_Product_Info/Current _Loudspeakers/SB1000z/SB1000zR_SPECS_revB.pdf

I've rented and used four sb1000 with my sh-50s in the past, so I know how they perform together. To me it looks like the sb1000 is -3dB around 35hz and -10dB around 30hz, approx. 10 hz lower than the LA400.

I've never a/b-ed two subwoofers with a 10dB difference in -3dB-point.
How "big" an issue are those 10hz?

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Tim McCulloch

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Re: LA 400 + SH-50
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2011, 10:16:43 pm »

You will feel it.  You will hear it, too, but might not be able to describe what is different.  To a certain extent this is one of those "you have to hear it to understand" things.

FWIW, there is a visceral difference between the JBL 4880 and 4880A subs.  The specs show the -3 and -10db freqs of each to be within 2hz of each other, but there is a palpable difference between the way they sound/feel at the lowest half octave.  The difference might not seem obvious in the spec, but they are real.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
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Art Welter

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Re: LA 400 + SH-50
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2011, 02:15:51 pm »

Helge A. Bentsen wrote on Tue, 04 January 2011 16:02

Thank you for your replies  Smile

I did a quick comparison between one LA400

 http://eaw.com/info/EAW/Loudspeaker_Product_Info/Current_Lou dspeakers/LA400/LA400_SPECS_rev1.pdf

and one SB1000

 http://www.eaw.com/info/EAW/Loudspeaker_Product_Info/Current _Loudspeakers/SB1000z/SB1000zR_SPECS_revB.pdf

I've rented and used four sb1000 with my sh-50s in the past, so I know how they perform together. To me it looks like the sb1000 is -3dB around 35hz and -10dB around 30hz, approx. 10 hz lower than the LA400.

I've never a/b-ed two subwoofers with a 10dB difference in -3dB-point.
How "big" an issue are those 10hz?


The low E on a four string bass is a 40 Hz fundamental, the low B on a five string is about 32 Hz.
That is a four note spread, like the range in the first notes of the melody "Silent Night, Holy Night".

There is a big difference when you hear the fundamental, rather than just the harmonics (64,128 or 80, 160 etc.) of low notes.

Bass guitar usually is naturally lower output in the fundamental compared to the harmonics, but there are plenty of samples, drums and synth bass with lots of musical information down low.

You can do an experiment at (very) lower volumes to hear the difference using your SH 50, EQ them flat to 32, listen to some bass heavy tracks, then go back to no EQ (-10 at 40 Hz) and you will have your answer.

The type of music played will have a marked difference, most pop music before around 1985 has little below 50 Hz, but there are plenty of modern cuts with loads of stuff down low.

Listening to "Raising Sand", Robert Plant/Alison Krauss (produced by T-Bone Burnett) I was a bit surprised how much content it had down in the 20 Hz range, though it makes sense, since music mixed to be played at quieter levels needs more LF to sound "fat" than at higher levels.

The difference between 40 and 31.5 Hz is the same as between 12.5 and 16 K. Once you get used to extended LF, it seems as unnatural not to have it as it would to roll off above 12.5K at 24 dB per octave.
The reason we make the compromise down low is it is a lot less size, weight and expense to get the top octave than it is to add in the bottom octave (s).

The one question I have is since you put the big money in the top cabinets, why not get something by DSL that goes low, gets loud, is efficient, and sounds good ?

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Caleb Dick

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Re: LA 400 + SH-50
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2011, 06:43:38 pm »

Art Welter wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 11:15


The one question I have is since you put the big money in the top cabinets, why not get something by DSL that goes low, gets loud, is efficient, and sounds good ?



+1.  Those tops deserve some nice subs.  TH-118's, DBH-218's, etc.  
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Helge A. Bentsen

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Re: LA 400 + SH-50
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2011, 07:46:34 pm »

Caleb Dick wrote on Thu, 06 January 2011 00:43

Art Welter wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 11:15


The one question I have is since you put the big money in the top cabinets, why not get something by DSL that goes low, gets loud, is efficient, and sounds good ?



+1.  Those tops deserve some nice subs.  TH-118's, DBH-218's, etc.  



No particular reason. I just received a offer, couldn't make up my mind about it, and came here in search of a answer Smile

I have access this weekend to some Meyer 650-r2 (-4dB/35hz) and some QSC HPR181i (-3dB/45hz). I'll try to make a quick comparison between them, I ASSume I should be able to hear a difference in the low end of the scale.

And thank you again Smile
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Art Welter

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Re: LA 400 + SH-50
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2011, 08:43:11 pm »

Helge A. Bentsen wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 17:46

Caleb Dick wrote on Thu, 06 January 2011 00:43

Art Welter wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 11:15


The one question I have is since you put the big money in the top cabinets, why not get something by DSL that goes low, gets loud, is efficient, and sounds good ?



+1.  Those tops deserve some nice subs.  TH-118's, DBH-218's, etc.  



No particular reason. I just received a offer, couldn't make up my mind about it, and came here in search of a answer Smile

I have access this weekend to some Meyer 650-r2 (-4dB/35hz) and some QSC HPR181i (-3dB/45hz). I'll try to make a quick comparison between them, I ASSume I should be able to hear a difference in the low end of the scale.

And thank you again Smile

You will hear the difference, but the Meyer 650-r2 can't put out much level down low.
I have four small dual Lab 12 ported cabinets that put out more level around 40 Hz than eight Meyers 650P.
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Jeff Bailie

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Re: LA 400 + SH-50
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2011, 07:37:42 pm »

Art Welter wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 19:43

Helge A. Bentsen wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 17:46

Caleb Dick wrote on Thu, 06 January 2011 00:43

Art Welter wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 11:15


The one question I have is since you put the big money in the top cabinets, why not get something by DSL that goes low, gets loud, is efficient, and sounds good ?



+1.  Those tops deserve some nice subs.  TH-118's, DBH-218's, etc.  



No particular reason. I just received a offer, couldn't make up my mind about it, and came here in search of a answer Smile

I have access this weekend to some Meyer 650-r2 (-4dB/35hz) and some QSC HPR181i (-3dB/45hz). I'll try to make a quick comparison between them, I ASSume I should be able to hear a difference in the low end of the scale.

And thank you again Smile

You will hear the difference, but the Meyer 650-r2 can't put out much level down low.
I have four small dual Lab 12 ported cabinets that put out more level around 40 Hz than eight Meyers 650P.

Or build some Labhorns for under those SH50's... It helps to elevate them off the ground. Plus your in the right place.  Surprised index.php/fa/34677/0/
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