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Author Topic: New Behringer digital mixer, the X32  (Read 114310 times)

David Buckley

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Re: Behringer making, but NOT designing at least ONE okay sounding product
« Reply #100 on: December 08, 2010, 08:50:34 PM »

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Thu, 09 December 2010 12:00

I also predict digital consoles will disappear being absorbed into other hardware that can't be eliminated so easily. Coming soon an IPhone control surface that talks to mediamatrix built into your powered speakers    Laughing ..just kidding folks).


I don't think you're kidding at all, and you may be not far from the truth.

Somewhere on this very board I suggested that we will be able to replace our UHFs wireless mics and their associated receivers with digital wireless mics going straight to mix;  who would need mic preamps for the money channels?

We've only been doing digital for a few years so far, and look how far we've come; who knows what crazy stuff we'll have in a decade or two's time...  And who knows how much of it will be Behringer!

Actually, typing that last word caused a train of thought: some Behringer products are (generally!) quite well thought of, the DCX speaker manager, the A/D converters.  These are products that involve Behringer writing DSP code, they are not "similar" to other manfs products, that some argue is all that Behringer make.

Maybe Behringer will have a second coming with their digital stuff, and become a respected member of the pro audio community...?


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Craig Smith

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Re: Behringer making, but NOT designing at least ONE okay sounding product
« Reply #101 on: December 08, 2010, 09:19:01 PM »

As I think about it, there are two components to this gear -- hardware and software.  It seems that Behringer has cut corners on the hardware side, but perhaps they are better on the software side.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: New Behringer digital mixer, the X32
« Reply #102 on: December 08, 2010, 10:31:22 PM »

Are you really under the impression Behringer copies the hardware but doesn't copy or use large portions of other manufacturers firmware?  Laughing
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Andy Peters

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Re: New Behringer digital mixer, the X32
« Reply #103 on: December 08, 2010, 11:01:16 PM »

Bob Leonard wrote on Wed, 08 December 2010 20:31

Are you really under the impression Behringer copies the hardware but doesn't copy or use large portions of other manufacturers firmware?  Laughing


Cloning firmware is possible, assuming that the hardware platform on which it runs is also cloned.

Making changes to the cloned firmware, without access to the source, is damned near impossible. The engineering time is better spent actually developing your own firmware.

-a
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Craig Walsh

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Re: New Behringer digital mixer, the X32
« Reply #104 on: December 09, 2010, 12:19:27 AM »

Bob Leonard wrote on Wed, 08 December 2010 21:31

Are you really under the impression Behringer copies the hardware but doesn't copy or use large portions of other manufacturers firmware?  Laughing


In the case of the DDX3216, this was not likely the case. Yamaha could make its own chips for the O1V and O1V96, but Behringer used Analog Devices SHARC processors (also used in the DCX2496 and DEQ2496). Their file I/O was DOS compatible. Thus, while they could take advantage of some existing file I/O routines, their DSP architecture appears to have been unique vs. the closest competitor. It seems as though they spent quite a bit of their engineering budget on building that platform. I was surprised that they didn't opt to simply upgrade (or downgrade, for that matter) on the existing platform. But apparently, the SHARC environment didn't move in the direction they wanted, and re-engineering their code to conform to newer SHARC processors (along with expensive parts like those flying Alps faders) would have been too expensive for their margins.

I think this all the more suggests some "Midas Inside" the new mixer. It will be interesting to see.

BTW, the list price on that page has now jumped from $2500 to $3000. Interesting....
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Lee Brenkman

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Re: New Behringer digital mixer, the X32
« Reply #105 on: December 09, 2010, 12:39:56 AM »

Craig Walsh wrote on Wed, 08 December 2010 21:19


BTW, the list price on that page has now jumped from $2500 to $3000. Interesting....


With all the "interest" in the product on this forum they may think they have a potential hot seller  Rolling Eyes
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: New Behringer digital mixer, the X32
« Reply #106 on: December 09, 2010, 06:52:57 AM »

Lee Brenkman wrote on Wed, 08 December 2010 23:39

Craig Walsh wrote on Wed, 08 December 2010 21:19


BTW, the list price on that page has now jumped from $2500 to $3000. Interesting....


With all the "interest" in the product on this forum they may think they have a potential hot seller  Rolling Eyes



 Hmmmm......

 Website product interest tracking...?  If there's enough interest they will build it.... so, spike their site with many visits from differing addresses ....and they could potentially make a Corporate over-priced product that NOBODY really wants ?

  Of course, I'm not suggesting anyone try this.

Hammer
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Josh Billings

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Re: New Behringer digital mixer, the X32
« Reply #107 on: December 09, 2010, 08:53:25 AM »

Behringer threads normally go like this

If you have a low post count
"Behringer sucks, sounds horrible and always fails"

Medium-Large Post Count
"I'm skeptical, because it's Behringer but i'm not discounting it entirely. Would like to hear more."

P.S. I was a "no behringer" guy when i owned a crappy compressor unit that i thought sounded bad when pushed. I however am a "yeah behringer" guy ever since i swapped my Drive Rack out for a cheapo DCX2496

Josh Billings
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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Behringer making, but NOT designing at least ONE okay sounding product
« Reply #108 on: December 09, 2010, 11:24:45 AM »

Craig Smith wrote on Wed, 08 December 2010 20:19

As I think about it, there are two components to this gear -- hardware and software.  It seems that Behringer has cut corners on the hardware side, but perhaps they are better on the software side.


More than 2 IMO.

1) feature set (list of things to do)
2) ergonomic or human factors (rotary or sliders, where controls are, rate and range of controls, menus, displays etc)
3) hardware (architecture and execution)
4) software ( architecture and execution)
5) what customer wants, when, where, and for right price.


Midas should be capable of #1 and #2 (hopefully), behringer should be capable of #3  and #4. I would not ASSume that because midas has insight into more expensive analog console business that automatically imparts dominant digital chops on them.  If they have a digital platform that works but is too expensive maybe behringer can help them there.

#5 Behringer has exhibited capability here.

The bottom line may be who is driving the bus.. I have seen digital software engineers destroy an otherwise attractive product concept with their horrible execution of the human factors part of software interface.  At this point some are speculating that this will be the best of this and best of that. Who the F knows?  As analog console makers know, the devil is in the details, I'm sure digital consoles are the same just with different ways to disappoint the customer.

Josh Billings wrote on Thu, 09 December 2010 07:53

Behringer threads normally go like this

If you have a low post count
"Behringer sucks, sounds horrible and always fails"

Medium-Large Post Count
"I'm skeptical, because it's Bringer but i'm not discounting it entirely. Would like to hear more."

Josh Billings


or not....    Cool   While I don't dislike them as an empty fashion statement.

Craig Walsh wrote on Wed, 08 December 2010 23:19


I think this all the more suggests some "Midas Inside" the new mixer. It will be interesting to see.

BTW, the list price on that page has now jumped from $2500 to $3000. Interesting....


The dollar exchange rate especially wrt the yuan has been pretty volatile. On one hand the quantitative easing (II) by Bernanke (effectively printing money) should weaken the dollar, while the fear of more sovereign debt crisis (like Ireland, Greece, Portugal, etc) makes the dollar stronger. Another point not much considered, our interest rates can't stay at near zero forever so that will also strengthen the dollar, If and when we ever start seeing significant growth in our economy and raise interest rates to reduce inflation. A price adjustment now may anticipate where the dollar will be when these ship (they appear to be betting on the weaker dollar). While it's hard to say where it will be even a week from now with the lame duck refusing to go quietly into the night.

re: this suggesting Midas inside.. I don't know what their bona fides are wrt cost effective digital design that doesn't suck. This may be a horse race between them and Behringer engineering. It could be a win-win (no doubt what management wants) but sometimes these marriages can be a little tricky.  

======

I am speculating at this point just like everybody else, but I have been paying attention to some of these issues for over a decade. I will state with certainty that it isn't as simple as most suggest and I have no real idea of how the pieces will come together.

Lets hope for the best, but kick the tires.

JR

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Tom Duffy

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Re: New Behringer digital mixer, the X32
« Reply #109 on: December 09, 2010, 03:48:38 PM »

Andy Peters wrote on Wed, 08 December 2010 20:01

Bob Leonard wrote on Wed, 08 December 2010 20:31

Are you really under the impression Behringer copies the hardware but doesn't copy or use large portions of other manufacturers firmware?  Laughing


Cloning firmware is possible, assuming that the hardware platform on which it runs is also cloned.

Making changes to the cloned firmware, without access to the source, is damned near impossible. The engineering time is better spent actually developing your own firmware.

-a


+1
Writing firmware that works is truly where the schedule for a product like this gets stretched.  My guess is that several of Uli's engineers from Germany are enjoying the rain in Kiderminster (base of operations for Midas) right now...

Tom.
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