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Author Topic: Yamaha LS9 input gain  (Read 26230 times)

Geoff Doane

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Re: Yamaha LS9 input gain
« Reply #30 on: February 18, 2011, 07:56:52 pm »

Jordan Wolf wrote on Tue, 15 February 2011 23:59


My only question is: what do you do to compensate for EQ gain adjustments...if you add ~5dB of 800Hz to the bass guitar's channel, do you dial back the gain of the whole channel by ~5dB?


To be honest, I've never really thought much about that.  Since my method tends to give much more input headroom than is really needed, a 5 dB boost is unlikely to cause clipping.  Also, if a source needs a 5 dB boost, it's probably because it's already deficient at that frequency, so it still won't adversely affect the headroom.

GTD
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Tim Padrick

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Re: Yamaha LS9 input gain
« Reply #31 on: February 20, 2011, 02:03:15 am »

Geoff Doane wrote on Fri, 18 February 2011 18:56

..... if a source needs a 5 dB boost, it's probably because it's already deficient at that frequency, so it still won't adversely affect the headroom.

GTD


It might if the PFL level was based on an input that was deficient at that frequency (which would read lower than if it was not deficient).  (I agree that it's not likely unless one has the PFL level way too high.)

Scott Weidenfeller

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Re: Yamaha LS9 input gain
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2011, 08:35:32 am »

Are you saying 0 dbu is really +24 dbu coming out of the mixer? I have always run my 01V at peaks of -6 to -10 or so dbu, I don't remember when/why I first started that and I don't hear distortion and I also don't recall seeing any excessive signals on the meters; though I also have some compression, effects, EQ going on which clouds it a bit.

Bottom line is it sounds like I should be running it cooler than -6 and if fact closer to   -18? Is that correct?

Thanks for any help/clarity on this

PS I may have to go experiment with all this and a meter.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Yamaha LS9 input gain
« Reply #33 on: February 26, 2011, 11:16:11 am »

Scott Weidenfeller wrote on Sat, 26 February 2011 08:35

Are you saying 0 dbu is really +24 dbu coming out of the mixer? I have always run my 01V at peaks of -6 to -10 or so dbu, I don't remember when/why I first started that and I don't hear distortion and I also don't recall seeing any excessive signals on the meters; though I also have some compression, effects, EQ going on which clouds it a bit.

Bottom line is it sounds like I should be running it cooler than -6 and if fact closer to   -18? Is that correct?

Thanks for any help/clarity on this

PS I may have to go experiment with all this and a meter.


You need to be careful about what reference you are using with dB. 0dBu can never equal +24dBu because they have the same reference, and different values. What you meant to say is 0dBfs (dB full scale) on certain Yamaha consoles gives you a +24dBu analog output level. That is true. It is also a standard of sorts across several manufacturers. Sony professional video equipment uses -20dBfs as their "0" reference level. That is equivalent to +4dBu, which is a standard in the analog world for 0Vu.

Mac
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Scott Weidenfeller

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Re: Yamaha LS9 input gain
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2011, 09:31:13 am »

Thanks,... I think my head is about to explode  Shocked

I have got to figure this out/learn this crap
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Frederik Rosenkjær

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Re: Yamaha LS9 input gain
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2011, 06:08:02 pm »

Geoff Doane wrote on Wed, 16 February 2011 02:41

 here's my routine.



Well, just wanted to chime in and say how much that goes against my personal preferences and way of working. Plus I think it's as close to "objectively wrong" as you can get in the audio business (where it's "if it sounds good - it is good".)

IMO the purpose of the gain pot is to optimize the signal for the entire signal path - using it to it's fullest so as to not pickup noise, but without distorting, of course. This applies to both analog and digital consoles.

I'm running an LS9-based rig, though I'm normally using Riedel Rocknet preamps. These have less noise than the Yamaha AD8HR I used to use for inputs which, in turn, have less noise than the native LS9 inputs.

But even with these quite nice preamps I find a dramatic difference when using this approach (all faders @ unity) versus my own approach which is in principle to get the signal as hot as possible - in practice channels are regularly peaking around -6 dBFS.

I mostly operate the rig myself, but every so often I get hired to provide for a band with own engineer and on occasion the BE has been of the "faders @ unity"-school. I hate it - the rig gets so incredibly noisy, as mentioned even with very good preamps and going digitally all the way into d&b D12 amps feeding Q7-cabs, while running the gains my way, the system is just gorgeously "digital black" kind of dead quiet between songs which, at some gigs, is invaluable in my personal opinion and taste. I want to hear the music - not the system.

I've never heard an LS9 distort in any unpleasant way at anything below 0 dBFS. Neither with internal preamps nor AD8HR or Rocknet.

If you want the fader resolution from the 0dB-method, you should consider using the attenuator in the EQ instead of the gain pot.

Also, I have a pet theory that says that this could be the reason so many people dislike the LS9 inputs so much - maybe they should just run them a little hotter.
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Michael Lewis

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Re: Yamaha LS9 input gain
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2011, 11:51:58 pm »

cool.. I was also thinking of the attenuator in the EQ to bring back faders to unity
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Corne Stapelberg

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Re: Yamaha LS9 input gain
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2011, 09:30:25 am »

Hallo Geoff

Thx for your input.
I found the reason for my distortion.
It was infact the DI that clippped.
After I started to use a pad on them as a standard procedure - nothing like that ever happened since I started this post.
From there I run the LS9 sometimes a bit hot, but NO MORE FUNNY NOISES !!!!!

I also follow your way of mixing : Best possible input gain without clipping (with the correct EQ applied) and ANY posistion for the slider

Regards
Corne' Cool
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