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Author Topic: 4x10+1in COLUMN!  (Read 16961 times)

Gene Hardage

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4x10+1in COLUMN!
« on: April 21, 2010, 03:06:02 pm »

Sorry for the caps but I'm excited about these columns.   Laughing

I've been warning folks around town for a while that I was gonna go old school and get a pair of columns and I finally did.   I pestered Ramsdell for months and they custom made these for me and eventually intend to offer them on the web site.
http://www.ramsdellproaudio.com/

Without giving away too much about the innards let's just say that they are not just 4 tens and a horn in a box.  

http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q372/GeneHardage/WIRES/4x10w1inCOLUMNfront.jpg

The driver and speakers are all NEO and the cab weighs in around 70 pounds.  

http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q372/GeneHardage/WIRES/GuitarRack.jpg

They have a slight trapezoid shape and plenty of depth so you can get a bit of low end out of it.  It will go down to about 50hz and smoothly all the way to the upper limits of most humans.  The key word is smoothly.  They have enough umph for a side fill in my A rig and also work well for a drum monitor.  Most people don't like to admit to all the crap gigs they do but when you wind up as a band in the corner these are faster - fuller and all around better than any stick PA with a powered Mackie board.  I plop them down on either side and presto they sound great even with a little kick thrown in.    The best part is when you take it up a notch and use a better board and power with a single 18 underneath.  They really shine with subs and they become a great club FOH system.   With the 18 underneath they are jaw droppingly hi-fi.

If you're one of the 100,000-300,000 bikers expected to show for this weekend's bikefest in Leesburg - stop by and give a listen (they will be sidefill and drum monitor)
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Pat Latimer

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Re: 4x10+1in COLUMN!
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2010, 09:18:12 pm »

Gene.

Where, when, and how much??? You're not that far and I'd like to hear those pups. Shocked




edit: I saw when and where. I wish I could make it.


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Gene Hardage

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Re: 4x10+1in COLUMN!
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2010, 11:27:44 pm »

Pat Latimer wrote on Wed, 21 April 2010 21:18

Gene.

Where, when, and how much??? You're not that far and I'd like to hear those pups. Shocked




edit: I saw when and where. I wish I could make it.





Apparently this Leesburg Bike Fest has turned into something like the Daytona Bike week where they have multiple stages and bands etc.  We aren't even on the radar but we have a stage and it's right there in the middle of it all.  I used to play out on Folly Beach near you but we haven't been there in quite a while so you'll have make an excuse to come to St. Pete Beach and we'll listen then.
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Tim Padrick

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Re: 4x10+1in COLUMN!
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2010, 09:51:28 am »

Wouldn't a D'Appolito configuration have been better than having the horn at one end?  Or are they a three way with 3 woofs and a mid?

Gene Hardage

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Re: 4x10+1in COLUMN!
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2010, 10:13:16 pm »

Tim Padrick wrote on Sat, 01 May 2010 09:51

Wouldn't a D'Appolito configuration have been better than having the horn at one end?  Or are they a three way with 3 woofs and a mid?


I had to Google D'Appolito to see what you were talking about.  I'm guessing that you're referring to the horn being in the middle?  I do have some stuff that has that configuration and I like them a lot.
http://www.ramsdellproaudio.com/products/powered/PS-2-15-X-S S.htm

These columns are passively crossed with progressively lower crossover points for each 10.  He said it would make it smoother and more transparent and I have to agree - they are nothing like the columns of yesteryear.  We just got done using them for what I call a club PA with a single 18 under each powered by Crown XTi's and they brought forth several comments from the listeners.  
So far I've used them for several functions -
as a drum monitor for my bigger rig
as a side fill for my bigger rig
as mains with a powered Mackie board in a small quiet club
as mains with an 18 underneath in a medium club and outside
and they have done each task nicely.
They get used at every gig for something.
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Seth Hochberg

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Re: 4x10+1in COLUMN!
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2010, 03:58:31 am »

Very cool product, it looks like. I didn't realize Ramsdell was based out of St Pete. Once I get back up into Pinellas from Miami-Dade in a few weeks here I might have to track you down at a gig and give those things a listen.  Smile
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Lee Brenkman

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Re: 4x10+1in COLUMN!
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2010, 02:29:32 pm »

Which 18 are you using underneath these?

Ramsdell, I'm sure.  But which model?
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Gene Hardage

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Re: 4x10+1in COLUMN!
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2010, 04:49:39 pm »

Lee Brenkman wrote on Sun, 02 May 2010 14:29

Which 18 are you using underneath these?

Ramsdell, I'm sure.  But which model?


But of course...

Laughing

It's this cab  http://www.ramsdellproaudio.com/products/subs/TL18_2.htm

but with the "lite" speaker in it like these  http://www.ramsdellproaudio.com/products/subs/FL-1-18.html

it's the same series P-Audio as the tops - they don't handle tons of power but they sound really nice and go pretty low - here's phone pic of me holding one of the 18's straight armed in one hand with my phone in the other.


http://i349.photobucket.com/albums/q372/GeneHardage/WIRES/NEO-18.jpg

The end result is a 50 pound 18 cab with a fairly narrow footprint that sounds great and handles about 400-500 watts.   I'm sure if you pounded them long and hard they would probably blow but for most of my purposes they have done remarkably well.  I powered the column tops with a Crown Xti 2000 and the little 18's got a Crown Xti 4000 - the board is a MixWiz3 and I have a single spacestereo  Ashley 15 band EQ if needed for the tops - the subs are AUX fed.  The SA DSP for the tops rolls off at 24db BW @ 45hz with the limiter set at -3

the sub SA high passes at either 33hz or 36hz I can't remember and low passes at 80hz with the limiter set at -3

more about the column tops - the 10's are 16 ohm so the cabs are around 4 ohm
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Rory Buszka

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Re: 4x10+1in COLUMN!
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2010, 06:11:32 pm »

Tim Padrick wrote on Sat, 01 May 2010 09:51

Wouldn't a D'Appolito configuration have been better than having the horn at one end?  Or are they a three way with 3 woofs and a mid?


Actually, my money's on a frequency-shaded design, or '2.5-way' where the lower woofers are rolled off progressively with increasing frequency. With a frequency-shaded design, if you get too many of them side-by-side to where pattern control begins happening because of the dimensions of the LF array, they'll start to take on a 'thick' character that has to be EQ'ed down 3-6dB depending on the room or absence of, but frequency-shaded trap boxes will sound fuller as single boxes in the midbass without needing a large number of enclosures because the shading frequency is usually chosen to be the frequency below which the enclosures lose pattern control and begin to radiate spherically.

It looks like an interesting design experiment, but I doubt owners of EV Phoenix or JBL SRX would be dumping their stock to go with these.

Now -- if the 10" drivers have a low Fs, the enclosure tune can be lowered into the 50's, and you can begin questioning the need for a subwoofer for a lot of material. I could see these being a useful box for the street festivals that happen around here, and they're probably different enough to generate some interest for the Ramsdell brand.
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Gene Hardage

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Re: 4x10+1in COLUMN!
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2010, 05:08:36 pm »

Rory Buszka wrote on Fri, 21 May 2010 18:11

Tim Padrick wrote on Sat, 01 May 2010 09:51

Wouldn't a D'Appolito configuration have been better than having the horn at one end?  Or are they a three way with 3 woofs and a mid?


Actually, my money's on a frequency-shaded design, or '2.5-way' where the lower woofers are rolled off progressively with increasing frequency. With a frequency-shaded design, if you get too many of them side-by-side to where pattern control begins happening because of the dimensions of the LF array, they'll start to take on a 'thick' character that has to be EQ'ed down 3-6dB depending on the room or absence of, but frequency-shaded trap boxes will sound fuller as single boxes in the midbass without needing a large number of enclosures because the shading frequency is usually chosen to be the frequency below which the enclosures lose pattern control and begin to radiate spherically.

It looks like an interesting design experiment, but I doubt owners of EV Phoenix or JBL SRX would be dumping their stock to go with these.

Now -- if the 10" drivers have a low Fs, the enclosure tune can be lowered into the 50's, and you can begin questioning the need for a subwoofer for a lot of material. I could see these being a useful box for the street festivals that happen around here, and they're probably different enough to generate some interest for the Ramsdell brand.


I'll take your word for all of that.  That's some pretty complicated goobledygoop you're talking about.  

Anyway - I just got done with another splendid evening using them as side fills down in Delray Beach for a Chill Lounge event...

Couldn't find any clips of that one but here's one from St. Pete.  No band and no pics of the speakers but who cares?! Laughing Laughing Laughing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH-3-W5qC3E
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