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Author Topic: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?  (Read 14642 times)

Jeff Permanian

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2010, 02:15:00 pm »

Evan Kirkendall wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 13:11

So, you have to feed them more power to get the same results as before? Or is there anymore extra output gained here?

Evan


??? There is 3db output gain.
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Evan Kirkendall

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2010, 02:20:15 pm »

Jeff Permanian wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 14:15

Evan Kirkendall wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 13:11

So, you have to feed them more power to get the same results as before? Or is there anymore extra output gained here?

Evan


??? There is 3db output gain.


Good! Smile

I remember the "old" specs saying they could do 132dB peak, and the new ones(at least posted here on the forums) only said 133, so that's why I was curious.

Now you just need to throw a lead brick in them to keep them from bouncing around even more.



Evan
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Not all change is good change.

Jim Duyck

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2010, 05:06:27 pm »

It was actually listed @ 130 dB previously.  I know I'm stating the obvious, given the math involved.... Surprised
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~jim~

Art Welter

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2010, 05:48:58 pm »

Jeff Permanian wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 11:54

126.5 volt (2000w at 8ohm), logarithmic, sine wave sweep with 3db of compression.

Frequency response is unchanged.

New Growlers handles double the power of the previous.


Sound's like impressive power handling, but I'm still unclear with exactly what you are saying.
Does a swept sine wave of 126.5 volt cause 3 dB of compression?

Does that happen immediately, or after thermal equilibrium has been reached in the magnet structure?

What voltage level with a continuous sine wave causes the voice coil to burn up?

Will the voice coil burn up before the 3 inch peak to peak excursion limit is reached?
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Jeff Permanian

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2010, 06:40:03 pm »

I know my specs aren't like everyone else. I try to make it easy on people. There is no math, magic or voodoo involved. Simply use an amplifier less than the maximum recommended.

Sine wave testing as been long abandoned because it doesn't resemble what speakers will have to reproduce in the real world, music.

The industry standard is to use pink noise with a 6db crest factor (allowing for peaks up to 6db over the average). This is why you topically see power ratings: continous, program and peak. Continous is the average power, peak is 6db above the average and program splits the difference.

Topically power testing to done monitoring voltage and amperage (current). Add power until the amperage halves which is when the resistance of the speaker has doubled and there is the 3db of power compression.

This only tests thermo power handling and does NOT account for any and all the other losses which is why everyother company only lists "calculated" numbers.





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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2010, 07:16:03 pm »

Jeff Permanian wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 12:59

Art Welter wrote on Wed, 10 March 2010 14:43

Felix,

The speaker's voice coil  probably handles around 500 watts RMS, capable of 6 dB peaks (2000 watts).

Art Welter



Even the previous model was more capable than that Smile

The new driver has 23mm of xmax (eachway, 46mm total linear) and nearly 3" peak to peak mechanical travel.


Jeff

Do the growlers you have on sale for $799 have the new drivers in them or is this the old driver stock being discontinued?

Thanks

Douglas R. Allen
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Jeff Permanian

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2010, 07:26:31 pm »

Douglas R. Allen wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 18:16


Jeff

Do the growlers you have on sale for $799 have the new drivers in them or is this the old driver stock being discontinued?

Thanks

Douglas R. Allen



New.
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Art Welter

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2010, 08:13:14 pm »

Jeff Permanian wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 16:40

I know my specs aren't like everyone else.



Answering the four questions I asked  in message #527890 would  be helpful to determine how you arrive at your specs, and what they mean.

I’m not looking for the “easy” answer, I explained what I thought your current specs meant to the OP, then you said “Even the previous model was more capable than that  Laughing ”.

Art Welter
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Jeff Permanian

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2010, 08:39:30 pm »

Art Welter wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 19:13

Answering the four questions I asked  in message #527890 would  be helpful to determine how you arrive at your specs, and what they mean.

I’m not looking for the “easy” answer, I explained what I thought your current specs meant to the OP, then you said “Even the previous model was more capable than that  Laughing ”.

Art Welter



Actually, they won't. Speakers are not resisters.

1) yes, some port compression, some power compression, some mechanical compression.
2) heat soaked
3) frequency dependent (power consumption tracks impedance curve)
4) frequency dependent (you'll never hit 3" peak to peak at 80hz and above)

You arbitrarily picked a 60hz sine wave. What if there is a large impedence peak at 60hz? You could put a ton of voltage in and not consume any power. This is why boardband testing is done. Everything in audio is averaged or depends.
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Art Welter

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2010, 09:17:12 pm »

Jeff Permanian wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 18:39

Art Welter wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 19:13

Answering the four questions I asked  in message #527890 would  be helpful to determine how you arrive at your specs, and what they mean.

I’m not looking for the “easy” answer, I explained what I thought your current specs meant to the OP, then you said “Even the previous model was more capable than that  Laughing ”.

Art Welter



Actually, they won't. Speakers are not resisters.

1) yes, some port compression, some power compression, some mechanical compression.
2) heat soaked
3) frequency dependent (power consumption tracks impedance curve)
4) frequency dependent (you'll never hit 3" peak to peak at 80hz and above)

You arbitrarily picked a 60hz sine wave. What if there is a large impedence peak at 60hz? You could put a ton of voltage in and not consume any power. This is why boardband testing is done. Everything in audio is averaged or depends.


Thanks for the answers.

I understand that speakers are not resistors, an impedance, frequency and an excursion plot would answer my questions much more effectively.

At 35 Hz will the voice coil burn up before the 3 inch peak to peak excursion limit is reached?

I thought the Growler was a folded horn, what port are you referring to?

When the impedance curve is equal to the nominal impedance of 8 ohms, what is the long term sine wave power level that will burn up the voice coil?

Art Welter
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