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[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Dick Rees wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 11:10

benjamin fisher wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 11:02 I think what you are basically saying is go to work for someone else, correct? What if I want to be the person others want to work for (I do)? I dont want to keep working in bars, thats for sure. I see many bigger production companies, and many kind of in the middle. Thats where I want to be. I think right now my biggest concern is getting proper experience, so that I am able to do whatever it is I need. I see these indie-level bands touring all over the country. Dont most of them have a dedicated sound person that travels with them? Isnt there money in that? Not enough. Another analogy. Say you want to drive a big rig over the road.  You train on a big rig, not on a bicycle. As has often been said here to folks wanting (for who knows what reason) to enter the glamorous world of SR, find an outfit that does what you want to do and go to work for them doing whatever they need done.  You'll learn the business from the ground up including a lot of things you had no idea you'd need to know and after an "apprentice" period, you may get to do what you want to do and make a living.  In the mean time, you're "playing with other peoples money" so to speak.

Alright, point taken.

[Dick Rees]

benjamin fisher wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 11:11

Dick Rees wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 11:10 benjamin fisher wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 11:02 I think what you are basically saying is go to work for someone else, correct? What if I want to be the person others want to work for (I do)? I dont want to keep working in bars, thats for sure. I see many bigger production companies, and many kind of in the middle. Thats where I want to be. I think right now my biggest concern is getting proper experience, so that I am able to do whatever it is I need. I see these indie-level bands touring all over the country. Dont most of them have a dedicated sound person that travels with them? Isnt there money in that? Not enough. Another analogy. Say you want to drive a big rig over the road.  You train on a big rig, not on a bicycle. As has often been said here to folks wanting (for who knows what reason) to enter the glamorous world of SR, find an outfit that does what you want to do and go to work for them doing whatever they need done.  You'll learn the business from the ground up including a lot of things you had no idea you'd need to know and after an "apprentice" period, you may get to do what you want to do and make a living.  In the mean time, you're "playing with other peoples money" so to speak. Alright, point taken.

Don't take it too hard.  The facts are often less than pleasant when dealing with your dreams.  

It's not just the SR skills, but the business sense that needs to be developed.  The SBA has a lot of free information and courses if you want to learn how to run your own business.  But make no mistake.....it's a business and running it is as much or more work than the work that you set out to do originally.

Good luck.

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Thanks for the heads up.

I will read into the SBA

[Tim McCulloch]

Hi again-

I'm not telling you to give up now, I'm telling you that providing sound directly and exclusively to bands that play in bars will not make you a living.

I don't know what mixerpersons make for 'band in a van' gigs these days, but it was about $75/night 20 years ago.  I doubt that has changed.  Indie band in a bus... that might get you $250/night or $1000/wk plus per diem.  Not bad if you can do it 52 weeks a year, but unacceptable if you acquire a family that expects you to be home.

Here's the deal:  You'll spend $20-40K building a bar band rig acceptable to the occasional "D" level national or regional act.  You need to pay yourself back (with interest) for that investment as well as paying yourself to be the technician at the gig, AND you need to pay yourself for running the company, too.  This is where most start ups fail.  They don't factor in those costs when setting prices and work too cheap for too long, establishing a pricing precedent that is almost impossible to break out of.  Trust me, I've done it myself and watched others do it, too.  As a manager, it's my job to not have my employer take that track.

One needs business education as much or more as one needs advice about consoles and speakers.  Develop a business plan.  Seriously.  That will be the litmus test that shows if you have profit or loss on your horizon.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Ok, So how do you suggest I get to the point where I am charging what my equipment and I are worth? Because I am sure making $100/night X 4-6 times a month is under paying me. As you know, in this economy, and atleast around here in Ohio, its tough for me to even make $100/gig. And if I charge much more, bands just say forget it. They are happy with my system, but dont care about it so much that they are will to regularly spend over $150/night. I'm getting $200 on NYE and its only because its NYE! $100-$150 is my average per gig, and normally only Fri and/or Sat each week.


I appreciate the eye openers from everyone. Although I dont like to hear it, I know its a positive thing.

[Jeff Wheeler]

benjamin fisher wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 12:10

Ok, So how do you suggest I get to the point where I am charging what my equipment and I are worth?

I do several things that allow me to use my equipment.  DJ, karaoke host, and bar-band sound.  I know bands and sound guys that are lucky to be booked 2 times a month right now, while that would be a crappy week for me, because I have the flexibility to do several things.  I bet everyone on the forum sneers at me when I post something related to karaoke or DJing, but it's easy and it pays.

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Jeff Wheeler wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 12:39

benjamin fisher wrote on Fri, 11 December 2009 12:10 Ok, So how do you suggest I get to the point where I am charging what my equipment and I are worth? I do several things that allow me to use my equipment.  DJ, karaoke host, and bar-band sound.  I know bands and sound guys that are lucky to be booked 2 times a month right now, while that would be a crappy week for me, because I have the flexibility to do several things.  I bet everyone on the forum sneers at me when I post something related to karaoke or DJing, but it's easy and it pays.

Yeah, I've gathered they hate to even see the words Karaoke, or DJ. But, I do DJ weddings as well for extra money. Hey, its money and I have the stuff to do it. Plus its so easy, however I hate it and it sucks!! I work with a photography company that books wedding photography and then offers DJ services as a package, and I get cut in. I also host a weekly open mic night, but I use the bars junk equipment. Why, because it pays $20 most nights, but I'm always promised a good drunken stooper  

But still, around here, and right now....gigs are hard to come by, and when booked, still are low paid. I do believe that with the stuff I currently have, I could work with slightly bigger and better bands, but they already have someone working with them on sound. So, I get the leftovers. I guess I'm not in the "click"

[Doug Fowler]

Quote:

The issue with serving bands is that they are spending their own money. There is tremendous pressure to keep contracted services as inexpensive as possible. The best profits exist in serving markets where your fee is paid with "someone else's money."

...and the logical extension of this is working for promoters vs. doing corporate work.

When you do a concert for a promoter, your fee comes out of the promoter's profit.

When you do corporate work, your fee comes out of a company budget.

Newbies would do well to learn this early on :-)

[thomas williams]

Take a look at Guitar Centers used gear site. I picked up a Neumann kms 105 for 350.00 that was in excellent condition. I have found numerous high end mics at this site that sell for far less than Ebay. Enjoy

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

Sorry to break the news to you but the low end St market here in Phoenix sucks right now.   I do not typically work directly for bands unless they want to pay my regular fees.  I turn down a lot of work because the bands here are too cheap.  Best thing I can recommend is to network with others.  Feel free to contact me if you have any questions about the market out here.
Ryan