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Author Topic: DCX2496 Limiters  (Read 3975 times)

Ron Kimball

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DCX2496 Limiters
« on: June 26, 2009, 03:13:10 pm »

Does anyone know FOR SURE if the limiters on the DCX2496 are peak or RMS? If peak (= kinda useless?), can the dynamic eq be used as an RMS limiter? Does anyone know FOR SURE if the thresholds are offset off of +22dbu or ? Behringer manuals sure suck Sad!
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Greg Cameron

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Re: DCX2496 Limiters
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2009, 07:50:53 pm »

Peak limiters are usually not useless so long as your amps are relatively matched to the program power of the speakers. Limiting on most processors is, in fact, still peak limiting. You only find rms limiting on select top end processors and the majority of those are ones that are built into amps like the I-Techs.

Now the cases where peak limiting may not be all that helpful is if 1) your power amps are too big for the speakers, 2) you overdrive the shit out of your signal chain or processor, 3) the limiters are of shitty quality and can be "punched through" easily, 4) sine wave heavy trance type music where you're pushing your system to the edge (in that case having your amps sized smaller than program power rating & closer to the rms rating would be a good idea). I find with cheaper DSPs, the limiters often not only don't sound very good when you're hitting them, they also may not limit all that well either. FWIW, peak limiting has been doing a decent job of protecting systems for a long time. Of course, these are systems with well matched amp, speakers, and processing. The article Bennett wrote talks about using much bigger power amps than the speakers are rated for, and that can work very well with properly calibrated rms limiting. And you likely to get a noticeable bump in average output and headroom by doing so. But for the time being, that takes some big wallet amps and processing.

As for how well the limiters in your DCX work in terms of punch-though and sound quality, I haven't used one. But I suspect other here have and will chime in.

Greg
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Cameron Pro Audio.

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John Ward

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Re: DCX2496 Limiters
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2009, 08:29:17 pm »

Agree completely.
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Jeff Wheeler

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Re: DCX2496 Limiters
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2009, 08:59:34 pm »

Greg Cameron wrote on Fri, 26 June 2009 18:50

As for how well the limiters in your DCX work in terms of punch-though and sound quality, I haven't used one. But I suspect other here have and will chime in.

If you ride the limiters in the DCX you will get some degree of unpleasant output pumping.  How much depends on how you have the release time configured, program content, and how far you are trying to over-drive it.  The same is true of the limiter in the DEQ1024.  I tried to explain this to some DJs at a club once, but my advice was met only with "sound man, turn us up!"   Rolling Eyes
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Ron Kimball

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Re: DCX2496 Limiters
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2009, 09:02:35 pm »

Greg Cameron wrote:

Peak limiters are usually not useless so long as your amps are relatively matched to the program power of the speakers.
Well yah - the peak limiters in most AMPS are useful. I was talking about peak limiters in loudspeaker management systems. I suppose if the amp was way too big a external peak limiter is useful but I was kinda planning on using the amp's peak limiter to keep the peaks reasonable and the limiters in the loudspeaker management system to keep the rms down to what the speakers can handle. I was hoping the loudspeaker management system's limiters were at least as good as a <$100 crap compressor that can certainly do rms limiting. So, even the $$$ driverack works that way Shocked?
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Ron Kimball

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Re: DCX2496 Limiters
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2009, 08:55:21 am »

Well, I was hopin' to use it to protect a pair of 200wrms PV118's run off an RMX2450 as the sole subs for an outside gig today I stupidly agreed to Shocked - maybe I get to blow my first drivers today Laughing?
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Nick Enright

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Re: DCX2496 Limiters
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2009, 10:19:05 am »

I think you'll be just fine...

I run a 2450 into the EVM-18 (200wrms/400wpgm/800wpk) all the time, with DJ's. In a sealed cabinet.

From the QSC Manual, FTC Power Output is 450w. (FTC is the measurement method)

Well all I would do is set the limiter and using some resources.. (couple of nice excel charts to calculate power output and to convert units, they're here somewhere) ..dial the limiters the appropriate # of dB down to limit the power applied to the cabs.

If you set the limiters without math. (setup but dont attach the speakers, run the amp till the clip lights light, then dial down the limiters till they go out.) I doubt you'll kill a sub. (USE THE RIGHT HPF! or maybe even dial it up 1-5Hz.)

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John Ward

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Re: DCX2496 Limiters
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2009, 10:36:00 am »

All else properly set up the DCX2496 will do it's job quite well. Say what you will about the company but this is one of a few pieces of Behringer gear that works well for the money.

Anybody seen or demoed the Carvin 8 x 8 processor? Looks good from the marketing and at $900. direct I would like to learn a little more about it. Although Carvin has always been more of a prosumer level product some of their stuff is pretty amazing when it holds up. Unfortunately a lot of it hasn't held up or has been dummied down as their target market has always been the working musician.
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Greg Cameron

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Re: DCX2496 Limiters
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2009, 11:35:52 am »

I'm talking about the peak limiters in speaker processors as well, not the clip limiters in average amplifiers that cannot be relied upon to prevent speaker damage. As for the Drive Rack products, they do have dbx "classic" compression which I suppose could be used for rms limiting. But figuring out the best settings is no trivial matter if you're using an oversized amp.

Greg

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Cameron Pro Audio.

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Greg Cameron

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Re: DCX2496 Limiters
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2009, 11:40:52 am »

Ron Kimball wrote on Sat, 27 June 2009 05:55

Well, I was hopin' to use it to protect a pair of 200wrms PV118's run off an RMX2450 as the sole subs for an outside gig today I stupidly agreed to Shocked - maybe I get to blow my first drivers today Laughing?


I'm not sure what the problem is here. The PV118 has a program power rating of 400 watts, the RMX2450 450 watts. That's well within the limits of what's considered feasible. It's a perfect match up. I think you're over thinking this. Just set the limiter in the processor to allow mild to no clipping. Turn on the clip limiter in the amp for extra safety if you wish. You're done.

Greg
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Cameron Pro Audio.

"Procrastinators of the world - contemplate uniting!"
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