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Author Topic: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !  (Read 35062 times)

Neal Gaudet

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First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« on: June 02, 2009, 02:20:08 pm »

First, let me explain the setup....I play in a weekend rock/pop/classic band : drums, guitar, bass, some kb, and three vocals. We play in small bars and do a lot of small weddings and conventions. I am the drummer in the band. I've been playing live for 20 years and I work in audio post in the daytime.

Unfortunately, we do sound from the stage most of the time, and did on this gig (Yamaha 01v96).....SO.....I actually didn't have a lot of time listening to them out front, except for during sound check , and then during breaks with BG music.

What I can say is that they handily replaced a pair of Mackie SRM450's. Every bit as loud, wayyyyyy punchier and go deeper...even with the LF and HF switches flat.  On this gig, we ran them with a single Mackie SWA1501...one pole mounted on top of that and the other on a stand.
The top end in uncannily smooth. Like really really smooth. Not used to that with these kind of speakers(read <$1000 speakers). Coverage was plenty wide.

During one of the breaks, I simply could not believe how much bottom end they were capable of producing. Turned the sub waaaay down and it was still pumping. I am waiting for the right gig (smaller room) to play without the sub entirely, just to see how they do. I know, the Mackie SWA1501 isn't doing much anyway. We will probably buy the K Sub later this fall, when they're available.

I can't much else about how they sound yet...but I can say they are very light and easy to carry and pack. I love the 'top' handles! I had the pair in the front seat of my 2007 VW Rabbit (one on floor, one on seat). One person can easily put it up on a stand. They look really good with the plain black steel grilles.
So, for me, they have lived up to the claims so far. As much output as....say a Yorkville Unity15P? Not a chance! But at 1/3 the weight and size, I say perfect! No brainer for anyone looking at the Mackies.

On a somewhat unrelated side note, our guitar player took them home for the weekend - put them in the back seat of his Honda Civic,lying sideways on the seat.
Then, driving home, he hit a deer on the highway. Front end damage, cracked windshield, both airbags deployed. Car is a write-off because it's 12 years old anyway. He is fine....and the speakers.....are fine. Not a scratch. I don't remember reading anything about deer collision specifications!!  Surprised

I'll try to update with some more...useable information about how they sound as we gig with them more. Next weekend is a wedding gig in a small, hard/harsh sounding room. Bring it on!
Cheers

Neal

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Bob Kenton

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2009, 12:19:24 am »

Thanks for the post. Please report back after you get to play with them.
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Alan Roberts

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2009, 03:57:59 pm »

I've had a couple of the K10s since June and find them to be a good speaker, especially for the price. They seem to be geared toward the DJ market, as their low end seems a bit hyped, even without the extended bass switched on. The 100Hz HPF works well with a connected sub (mine is not the Ksub, however), but I can't find what kind of filter or what the slope it is. In any case, the K10 connected to a sub sounds, to me, a lot better than by itself.

I've used the K10s in low-level live sound gigs featuring acoustic musicians and church youth groups, and so the speakers have not been pushed to limiting. Vocals come through sounding quite natural and pleasant. Some of the subtleties of acoustic instrumentation don't come through as well as in more expensive speakers, but this can also be the case with less expensive ones. In a side-by-side comparison with the RCF ART 310A, the RCF seemed better in bringing out the details of instruments like acoustic guitar and piano. On the whole, however, the sound is quite good, especially when coupled with a sub.

I've been concerned about what I perceive as a drop-off of high-frequency content after about 35 feet. Now, I will admit that my volumes are low, but it seems that other speakers I use may be better at projecting beyond 35 feet. I need to play with this a little more to make sure I'm not imagining things.

The speaker is well-built and has a more professional look than your typical powered speaker in this price range. I really like the top handle: sturdy and convenient. I also bought the QSC totes. They are of excellent quality.

I haven't tried these as monitors yet, but this is where they might really shine. Will post again to let you know.

For the money, very decent.

Oh, almost forgot to mention. These were used once as fills in a room with Mackie SRM450v2 speakers as mains. In my opinion, the K10s sounded much better.

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Dick Rees

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2009, 05:24:05 pm »

Alan Roberts wrote on Thu, 20 August 2009 14:57



I've been concerned about what I perceive as a drop-off of high-frequency content after about 35 feet. Now, I will admit that my volumes are low, but it seems that other speakers I use may be better at projecting beyond 35 feet. I need to play with this a little more to make sure I'm not imagining things.






Alan....

What may be perceived as a "drop off" in HF 35' out into a room may actually be a result of the direct sound (at those frequencies) being overwhelmed and/or phase cancelled by the reflected sound.  All bets are off once you go beyond the critical distance.

DR
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Alan Roberts

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2009, 07:09:18 pm »

Dick Rees wrote on Thu, 20 August 2009 14:24

Alan Roberts wrote on Thu, 20 August 2009 14:57



I've been concerned about what I perceive as a drop-off of high-frequency content after about 35 feet. Now, I will admit that my volumes are low, but it seems that other speakers I use may be better at projecting beyond 35 feet. I need to play with this a little more to make sure I'm not imagining things.






Alan....

What may be perceived as a "drop off" in HF 35' out into a room may actually be a result of the direct sound (at those frequencies) being overwhelmed and/or phase cancelled by the reflected sound.  All bets are off once you go beyond the critical distance.

DR


Very well could be, Dick. Thanks for the tip!

Alan

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Art Welter

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2009, 04:49:07 pm »

Dick Rees wrote on Thu, 20 August 2009 15:24

Alan Roberts wrote on Thu, 20 August 2009 14:57


I've been concerned about what I perceive as a drop-off of high-frequency content after about 35 feet. Now, I will admit that my volumes are low, but it seems that other speakers I use may be better at projecting beyond 35 feet. I need to play with this a little more to make sure I'm not imagining things.


Alan....

What may be perceived as a "drop off" in HF 35' out into a room may actually be a result of the direct sound (at those frequencies) being overwhelmed and/or phase cancelled by the reflected sound.  All bets are off once you go beyond the critical distance.
DR

Dick,

Not to quibble with what you say, but the more extended the HF of a speaker to start with, the more HF air loss is apparent.
For a speaker without much response above 10 K, the difference at 35 feet would hardly be measurable, while one with flat response to 15K would be around 4 dB down at that distance.
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Art Welter
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Don Boomer

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2009, 02:41:45 pm »

Hey Art

What's the source for the graph?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2009, 03:29:44 pm »

But take 2 loudspeakers.

One that is 6dB down at 15K and one that is flat to 15KHz.

At any distance the one that has the extended response will STILL have more HF-because it started with more-assuming the rest of the system was level matched.

The air loss will reduce the level of both the same (dB wise).  The air doesn't care what what the starting level is (in a linear condition).
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Art Welter

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2009, 06:30:14 pm »

Don Boomer wrote on Wed, 26 August 2009 12:41

Hey Art

What's the source for the graph?


It is on the EAW site.
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Art Welter

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2009, 07:40:05 pm »

Ivan Beaver wrote on Wed, 26 August 2009 13:29

But take 2 loudspeakers.

One that is 6dB down at 15K and one that is flat to 15KHz.

At any distance the one that has the extended response will STILL have more HF-because it started with more-assuming the rest of the system was level matched.

The air loss will reduce the level of both the same (dB wise).  The air doesn't care what what the starting level is (in a linear condition).

I agree with what you wrote.

My point was that listening to a driver that rolls off above 10K such as the JBL 2470, which is already more than 10 dB down at 15K, air loss does not really make a difference at 50 feet. Whether the response is -15 or -20, 15K will be pretty much inaudible even for golden ears.
The JBL 2425, on the other hand, at 50 feet would drop from about -3 to -8 at 15K, from “a little”  to “a lot” down.
The K-10 is -6 at 18K,  on axis probably fairly similar to the 2425 graph, air loss would be noticeable.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2009, 08:08:06 am »

My experience is that with loudspeakers that have an extended HF response-even at a distance they still sound better than those that are rolled off.

Yes it may be down, but still "adds" to the sound.

A rolled of top end sounds dull and "lifeless" and lacking "detail".

If the argument is that people can't hear stuff that is 10-15dB down, then how do we hear instruments that are quite down in level in the mix?

Very often it is the subtle things that are reproduced that make one product stand out over another.
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drewgandy

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2009, 10:38:47 pm »

Art Welter wrote on Wed, 26 August 2009 17:30

Don Boomer wrote on Wed, 26 August 2009 12:41

Hey Art

What's the source for the graph?


It is on the EAW site.


I don't see atmospheric pressure or humidity values.  It seems pretty heavy handed compared to the graphs in my mind;)  

drew
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Jonathan Wiegratz

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2009, 10:09:39 am »

I'll add my $.02 about the K10's.   We use them for monitor duty and they handle it quite well!   We've used them a few times as mains in very tight spaces and they've managed the job well there as well.  

They're GOOD little speakers...  I'd still take my HPR's any day over them (when we have space), but for what they are, nice little lightweight speakers,  QSC certainly did a great job with the price/performance on the K-Series.
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(Brian) Frost

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2010, 01:16:32 am »

I now own 8 of the k10s and 2 of the k12s.  I do many gigs with k10s over a single small sub with great results.  I dont find the k12 gets that much louder tho it does a little better throwing further and does a little better without a sub- tho less than you might think.  I use them for monitors weekly and every singer seems to compliment how good they sound.  Im all around thrilled at their size, weight, and price to quality ratio.  I expect them to make me money for a long time.  Dont know of  a box that competes in its price class.  

I do wish I liked the ksub more because its price and form are very attractive but it just doesnt do it for me.  

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Michael Lewis

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2010, 10:09:18 am »

(Brian) Frost wrote on Wed, 11 August 2010 13:16

I now own 8 of the k10s and 2 of the k12s.  I do many gigs with k10s over a single small sub with great results.  I dont find the k12 gets that much louder tho it does a little better throwing further and does a little better without a sub- tho less than you might think.  I use them for monitors weekly and every singer seems to compliment how good they sound.  Im all around thrilled at their size, weight, and price to quality ratio.  I expect them to make me money for a long time.  Dont know of  a box that competes in its price class.  

I do wish I liked the ksub more because its price and form are very attractive but it just doesnt do it for me.  





Wow.. you got 8 K10s! I only have 2 and looking forward to my 2nd pair. Question I have is whether any of you have paired the K10s, 2 per side. I wanna know how much more do you really gain from the coupling effect (not in theory but in practice) and how much improvement in terms of volume and bass response. Any comments are welcomed.

So far, i find the speakers to have quite good volume and bass by itself, high frequencies are awesome especially on vocal boost but for larger gigs or dance stuffs, I have to rely on my 18" sub. Are the Ksubs that bad? What settings do you normally go for the deep and HF switches?

Mike
-proud owner of QSC K10s (I lug them around with Gator padded soft bag)
been using my 1st pair of k10s for various applications including:
-school / college proms up to 300 people (with 18" sub support)
-outdoor cd playback + vocal event up to 200 people (with 18" sub support)
-zone fill @ 500 people company annual dinner
-vocal support (speech / light music) up to 500 people
-monitor speaker for jazz band setup
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Art Welter

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2010, 11:46:25 am »

Michael Lewis wrote on Tue, 28 December 2010 08:09

(Brian) Frost wrote on Wed, 11 August 2010 13:16

I now own 8 of the k10s and 2 of the k12s.  I do many gigs with k10s over a single small sub with great results.  I dont find the k12 gets that much louder tho it does a little better throwing further and does a little better without a sub- tho less than you might think.  I use them for monitors weekly and every singer seems to compliment how good they sound.  Im all around thrilled at their size, weight, and price to quality ratio.  I expect them to make me money for a long time.  Dont know of  a box that competes in its price class.  

I do wish I liked the ksub more because its price and form are very attractive but it just doesnt do it for me.  



Wow.. you got 8 K10s! I only have 2 and looking forward to my 2nd pair. Question I have is whether any of you have paired the K10s, 2 per side. I wanna know how much more do you really gain from the coupling effect (not in theory but in practice) and how much improvement in terms of volume and bass response. Any comments are welcomed.

So far, i find the speakers to have quite good volume and bass by itself, high frequencies are awesome especially on vocal boost but for larger gigs or dance stuffs, I have to rely on my 18" sub. Are the Ksubs that bad? What settings do you normally go for the deep and HF switches?

Mike


Adding a second pair will give you 6 dB more output down low, but the very wide dispersion in the high frequencies will cause lots of comb filtering, so there will be areas where there is actually less HF than with a single. Intelligibility suffers with two per side, unless you need over 140 degrees of dispersion.
As it is, I found the high end needed to be boosted. The wide HF vertical dispersion also causes a lot of ceiling reflections in most rooms.
I made a pair of acoustical "clouds" that fit in the top handle and extend forward about 14 inches with egg crate type foam on the bottom, really helped clean up the high end.

The "deep" switch seemed too hyped to be of use live.
The "vocal" setting probably would be usable if you had no other EQ, for instance plugging a microphone directly in to the speaker with.

The Ksub gets loud for it's size, but does not go very low. It is a small sub, but very deep (front to back dimension) for it's size, which can limit where it is placed.
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Michael Lewis

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2010, 12:17:24 pm »

Art Welter wrote on Wed, 29 December 2010 00:46

Michael Lewis wrote on Tue, 28 December 2010 08:09

(Brian) Frost wrote on Wed, 11 August 2010 13:16

I now own 8 of the k10s and 2 of the k12s.  I do many gigs with k10s over a single small sub with great results.  I dont find the k12 gets that much louder tho it does a little better throwing further and does a little better without a sub- tho less than you might think.  I use them for monitors weekly and every singer seems to compliment how good they sound.  Im all around thrilled at their size, weight, and price to quality ratio.  I expect them to make me money for a long time.  Dont know of  a box that competes in its price class.  

I do wish I liked the ksub more because its price and form are very attractive but it just doesnt do it for me.  



Wow.. you got 8 K10s! I only have 2 and looking forward to my 2nd pair. Question I have is whether any of you have paired the K10s, 2 per side. I wanna know how much more do you really gain from the coupling effect (not in theory but in practice) and how much improvement in terms of volume and bass response. Any comments are welcomed.

So far, i find the speakers to have quite good volume and bass by itself, high frequencies are awesome especially on vocal boost but for larger gigs or dance stuffs, I have to rely on my 18" sub. Are the Ksubs that bad? What settings do you normally go for the deep and HF switches?

Mike


Adding a second pair will give you 6 dB more output down low, but the very wide dispersion in the high frequencies will cause lots of comb filtering, so there will be areas where there is actually less HF than with a single. Intelligibility suffers with two per side, unless you need over 140 degrees of dispersion.
As it is, I found the high end needed to be boosted. The wide HF vertical dispersion also causes a lot of ceiling reflections in most rooms.
I made a pair of acoustical "clouds" that fit in the top handle and extend forward about 14 inches with egg crate type foam on the bottom, really helped clean up the high end.

The "deep" switch seemed too hyped to be of use live.
The "vocal" setting probably would be usable if you had no other EQ, for instance plugging a microphone directly in to the speaker with.

The Ksub gets loud for it's size, but does not go very low. It is a small sub, but very deep (front to back dimension) for it's size, which can limit where it is placed.



thanks for the helpful info. I'll only use 2 per side in wider rooms. In narrow and long rooms i'll use them as mid fills. Can the ksub compete with a cheap 600W sub? How loud is loud?
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Art Welter

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2010, 04:31:57 pm »

[quote title=Michael Lewis wrote on Tue, 28 December 2010 10:17]
Quote:

thanks for the helpful info. I'll only use 2 per side in wider rooms. In narrow and long rooms i'll use them as mid fills. Can the ksub compete with a cheap 600W sub? How loud is loud?

That would depend on the "cheap 600W sub", and what is powering it, and what type of music is being played.

The QSC specs the K sub at 130 dB peak, with a -6 dB point of 48 Hz, and that peak point is probably up around 100 Hz.

The K10 is rated at 129 dB peak, -6 dB at 60 Hz. So, using the same rating, the K sub is only 1 dB louder than the K10, and only goes about 1/3 octave lower.

Many people would prefer a sub that is 3 to 10 dB louder than their top cabinet, and goes an octave lower.
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Grant Conklin

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2010, 11:27:44 pm »

Art Welter wrote on Tue, 28 December 2010 15:31



The QSC specs the K sub at 130 dB peak, with a -6 dB point of 48 Hz, and that peak point is probably up around 100 Hz.

The K10 is rated at 129 dB peak, -6 dB at 60 Hz. So, using the same rating, the K sub is only 1 dB louder than the K10, and only goes about 1/3 octave lower.

Many people would prefer a sub that is 3 to 10 dB louder than their top cabinet, and goes an octave lower.


I own a couple K10's and I think they're great.  However, I'd love to know how they achieve their peak ratings.  If my memory serves me right, I believe I saw them go into limit somewhere around 115db @ 1m.



Thanks,
Grant
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Art Welter

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2010, 01:20:56 pm »

Grant Conklin wrote on Tue, 28 December 2010 21:27

Art Welter wrote on Tue, 28 December 2010 15:31


The QSC specs the K sub at 130 dB peak, with a -6 dB point of 48 Hz, and that peak point is probably up around 100 Hz.

The K10 is rated at 129 dB peak, -6 dB at 60 Hz. So, using the same rating, the K sub is only 1 dB louder than the K10, and only goes about 1/3 octave lower.

Many people would prefer a sub that is 3 to 10 dB louder than their top cabinet, and goes an octave lower.


I own a couple K10's and I think they're great.  However, I'd love to know how they achieve their peak ratings.  If my memory serves me right, I believe I saw them go into limit somewhere around 115db @ 1m.


They might use ultra short duration peaks with an ultra fast peak reading meter at the single frequency the cabinet is capable of being loudest.

Or perhaps they simply drop the cabinet on the measurement microphone  Laughing .

The products are decent, but seriously, the use of -6 dB points rather than the industry standard of -3dB in a frequency response rating with no graphs, and no continuous output figure is cheesy.
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Michael Lewis

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2011, 01:47:14 am »

I'm back! now I have 4 units of K10s.. I'm loving them more each day and today I just used 2 K10s for a school concert and it still did a good job without sub..

However I'm thinking of getting the KW181 sub to match with my K10s.. how do you guys think it will perform?
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Jay Barracato

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2011, 03:25:28 pm »

I run two k10's over 181's and it is a great small rig. I think for a lot of music 1 181 wpuld keep up fine with 2 k10's.
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Michael Lewis

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2011, 10:36:59 pm »

Jay Barracato wrote on Thu, 17 February 2011 04:25

I run two k10's over 181's and it is a great small rig. I think for a lot of music 1 181 wpuld keep up fine with 2 k10's.


Nice. I'm highly considering the KW181.. is it much better than the Ksubs? Would you highly recommend it? Did you consider other subs like the ones from JBL, Yorkville and RCF?
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Jay Barracato

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Re: First gig with QSC K10 speakers !
« Reply #23 on: February 17, 2011, 02:23:28 pm »

I don't think JBL has anything worthwhile in the same price range, I like the Yorkies and am not really familiar with the RCF. In the end having a matched system was important to me, so I have all QSC.

I like the 181 a lot more than the KSub, and for smaller shows I have run 1 sub with 2 tops, and it works fine but I am not in a really bass heavy genre.
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