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Author Topic: low headroom  (Read 3695 times)

Richard Turner

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low headroom
« on: March 04, 2011, 04:32:12 pm »

Is there anything out there now in a box with fly points for horizontal hanging that is less than 16"in height (width when vertical) it seems everyone has gone to making constant curve boxes with 15x100+ degree dispersion.

I'm needing more of a 40x60 to 45 x 75 box that will work for 2-35' throw, 4 boxes total

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Portable Gear list, Yorkville Paraline PSA1 x4 PS2S x2 LP-LED4 x4 LP-LED2 x2 E10x4 E210x2 EM526 x2 (smoking tiny things) Allen-Heath Qu-16, also Yorkie trap box rig for sale ef500x4 ls808x4 ap4040x2

Lee Buckalew

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Re: low headroom
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2011, 04:51:50 pm »

Is there anything out there now in a box with fly points for horizontal hanging that is less than 16"in height (width when vertical) it seems everyone has gone to making constant curve boxes with 15x100+ degree dispersion.

I'm needing more of a 40x60 to 45 x 75 box that will work for 2-35' throw, 4 boxes total

There are quite a few.
First that come to mind are any of the Martin AQ series.  They have rotatable horns so horizontal is easy.  There are a number from other manufacturers as well.

The problem I see is if you really mean 2' - 35' throw you've got an issue.  Is that a 2' throw or 2' in front of the box but xx feet down?

The W8VDQ would be a candidate for close in with differential dispersion characteristics and can have high frequency shading applied to the short throw section only.  Full range or Bi-amp, can be yolk mounted.
It is taller than you indicated though at 20".

Lee
« Last Edit: March 04, 2011, 04:58:27 pm by Lee Buckalew »
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Lee Buckalew
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: low headroom
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2011, 05:11:36 pm »

Is there anything out there now in a box with fly points for horizontal hanging that is less than 16"in height (width when vertical) it seems everyone has gone to making constant curve boxes with 15x100+ degree dispersion.

I'm needing more of a 40x60 to 45 x 75 box that will work for 2-35' throw, 4 boxes total
One of the thing you have to consider is what is the ACTUAL coverage pattern.  With a small box, you can only have a small horn.  So that means that the pattern control will only be in the higher freq.  And the narrower the desired coverage pattern, the higher the range of freq that can be controlled will be.

Narrow patterns take larger horns to be able to control down to the same freq as wider pattern horns.

You need to look at the polar patterns or directivity graphs to figure out what the actual coverage pattern is at a particular freq.  It is NOT across the bandwidth-despite what marketing will lead you to believe.
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Ivan Beaver
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Richard Turner

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Re: low headroom
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2011, 08:10:53 am »

Is there anything out there now in a box with fly points for horizontal hanging that is less than 16"in height (width when vertical) it seems everyone has gone to making constant curve boxes with 15x100+ degree dispersion.

I'm needing more of a 40x60 to 45 x 75 box that will work for 2-35' throw, 4 boxes total

pretty much what I am dealing with is a stage in a pub with a ceiling height of 102" I do not want anything hanging anywhere lower than 84" the front of the pie shape stage is about 150 degrees of a circle but theres also a beam cutting across to meet the stage bulkhead close to one side and a door right next to the left hand side of the stage so just mounting trapboxes on wall mounts is not an option as that cannot be done on both sides.

Now if there was a dual 8" line array shaped object with a 60x40 ish horn in it that would work as it would have rigging points of some sort, or a 10" d'appolito type box with rigging points it would also work, I would rather not have to cradle the speakers or build a shelf in front of the stage.

barring that I'm thinking custom made boxes using co axial drivers and bi amp them with a good DSP
« Last Edit: March 05, 2011, 08:16:03 am by Richard Turner »
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: low headroom
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2011, 12:18:59 pm »

pretty much what I am dealing with is a stage in a pub with a ceiling height of 102" I do not want anything hanging anywhere lower than 84" the front of the pie shape stage is about 150 degrees of a circle but theres also a beam cutting across to meet the stage bulkhead close to one side and a door right next to the left hand side of the stage so just mounting trapboxes on wall mounts is not an option as that cannot be done on both sides.

Now if there was a dual 8" line array shaped object with a 60x40 ish horn in it that would work as it would have rigging points of some sort, or a 10" d'appolito type box with rigging points it would also work, I would rather not have to cradle the speakers or build a shelf in front of the stage.

barring that I'm thinking custom made boxes using co axial drivers and bi amp them with a good DSP

What type of output level capability are you looking for?  That could be another limiting factor.

If you are considering  coax drivers, it is going to be hard to find any with tyour specified pattern-they are generally going to be much wider.

Is there a reason for sticking to 4 boxes?  I would think something with a wider coverage located in the middle and one exploded off to each side (3 total) might be a better approach.

Now the low freq capability is generally going to be limited in that box size-so that is another consideration.  Actual usage (music style/output) would determine those needs and what can and can't be done.
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Jonathan Kok

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Re: low headroom
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2011, 12:30:43 pm »

pretty much what I am dealing with is a stage in a pub with a ceiling height of 102" I do not want anything hanging anywhere lower than 84" the front of the pie shape stage is about 150 degrees of a circle but theres also a beam cutting across to meet the stage bulkhead close to one side and a door right next to the left hand side of the stage so just mounting trapboxes on wall mounts is not an option as that cannot be done on both sides.

Now if there was a dual 8" line array shaped object with a 60x40 ish horn in it that would work as it would have rigging points of some sort, or a 10" d'appolito type box with rigging points it would also work, I would rather not have to cradle the speakers or build a shelf in front of the stage.

barring that I'm thinking custom made boxes using co axial drivers and bi amp them with a good DSP
As mentioned above, the Martin AQ series offers some that might suit your needs.  EAW MK series, Yamaha IF Series, I'm sure Turbosound offers something... If coaxial's your preferred method, Fulcrum Acoustics has boxes that might also suit your needs.  Most of these have optional yoke mounts.

Now, if you're looking for something cheap...no, you won't find anything.  All of the boxes mentioned above will be at least double the cost of your common bar PA (Yamaha 'Club V', or similar).  Many more than that.  The cheap PA's do not have rotatable horns, nor is the pattern control very good.  With professional PA, you really do get what you pay for...
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Adam Kane

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Re: low headroom
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2011, 06:24:09 pm »

Is there anything out there now in a box with fly points for horizontal hanging that is less than 16"in height (width when vertical) it seems everyone has gone to making constant curve boxes with 15x100+ degree dispersion.

I'm needing more of a 40x60 to 45 x 75 box that will work for 2-35' throw, 4 boxes total

I've used the Yorkville C2890 in some churches with low ceilings. They sound good and have fly points as well as optional U-brackets. http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=29&cat=5&id=223

Grund Audio also has several similar boxes with different driver configurations. It's their UB-series...found here:  http://www.grundorf.com/index.php?Type=SOUN&Application=UB

There's lots of other options out there, both more and less expensive. You get what you pay for.

Also, pay close attention to Ivans comment about published coverage patterns...he's 100% dead on.
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Richard Turner

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Re: low headroom
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2011, 12:42:00 am »



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

this is a crappy doodle of what I am into,

 looking top down

stage is in the corner of the building

with a freaking door to outside they are using for letting smokers out onto the deck and is used as main daytime entrance,

total ceiling height is 101.5" below t track ceiling
approx 4 " above and building is framed with 2.5 x 6" from mid 1920's

oh yes there is a beam and framed in bulkhead above the stage in red line, its 9" below the ceiling.

management doesn't want "big ugly black " speaker by the doorway

room is 40' deep in front of the stage and about 25' deep from stage right corner

use is local live bands, anything from jazz to scream o and everything in between.

for now I'm installing 2 Yorkville EF 508 on wall mounts till we get sorted out but I know I'm in for a hole in the middle of the sound field

subs will bw yorkville LS1004 for now or sw1000 whichever is free this week

I have 4 bose 802 with controller considering using them but out og time for sourcing mounting bracketry for this week

also have 4 JBL 2446 2" horn drivers and 4 2404 baby cheek tweeters and considering building something with 8 or 10" Eminence or b&c woofers

actually some audience members will be negative 1.5 feet from the front of the speakers it just gets better and better


I appreciate all the ideas

martin AQ bit too big, will block sight lines

EAW MK8126, would fit but its only a 300w box,at $950 ish a piece its tough as there are powered boxes out there for less, K8 or K10 QSC come to mind

yamaha IF 2208 plausible


Would love to try the danley sh95 but the beam would make using 2 difficult for placement and 3 plus processor would be eating up money that would be more useful elsewhere in the signal chain

yorkville c series i haven't had much luck with, Use them a lot for playback systems but its stuff they sourced in china,have had a few burned tweeters from trivia guys without compression. I dont think the C2890 would be up for 3 mights a week rock and roll

would love to know what the guts of grund audio UB16RN or UB2020 are.


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Portable Gear list, Yorkville Paraline PSA1 x4 PS2S x2 LP-LED4 x4 LP-LED2 x2 E10x4 E210x2 EM526 x2 (smoking tiny things) Allen-Heath Qu-16, also Yorkie trap box rig for sale ef500x4 ls808x4 ap4040x2

Tim Padrick

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Re: low headroom
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2011, 12:26:48 am »

A flyable version of the JTR Triple 8 and single 8 might be good choices.

http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/triple-8x

http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/single-8-pro

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Adam Kane

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Re: low headroom
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2011, 02:35:35 pm »

Yorkville's Coliseum-mini stuff is the "sourced from China" stuff that's best for background music and the like. Their regular Coliseum series is the baltic birch, made in Canada stuff that's loaded with a lot of B&C and Celestion. They are two completely different product lines. I've yet to see any of that stuff (including the 2890's) blow up...and a lot of it gets run pretty hard.
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