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Author Topic: built in bass DI's  (Read 15275 times)

Chad Johnson

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built in bass DI's
« on: April 19, 2009, 12:11:54 AM »

Dave's thread a few days ago http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/44509/0/0/1 50/ got me thinking about bass amp DI's.

What do you normally do with built in DI outputs on bass guitars?

In my experience, most bass players use the one in their amps and often just pull out the XLR on my DI and plug it into their head. On lots of shows there are three or four bands and quick change overs in the dark. I generally try to check it out, but sometimes the switch just happens.

When I ask most kids if they'd mind playing into my DI and then looping to their amp they proudly say "mine's got one built in". When I suggest mine probably sounds better they look confused. If I'm cantankerous, I usually say something like "Your little Fender thing is using a 15cent integrated circuit and just the Jensen transformer alone in this DI is worth more than your whole preamp all together."

They don't like their gear being insulted, especially if their stuff has vinyl peeling away on the corners and was bought from a pawn shop.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: built in bass DI's
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2009, 12:48:03 AM »

Chad Johnson wrote on Sat, 18 April 2009 23:11

Dave's thread a few days ago  http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/mv/msg/44509/0/0/1 50/ got me thinking about bass amp DI's.

What do you normally do with built in DI outputs on bass guitars?

In my experience, most bass players use the one in their amps and often just pull out the XLR on my DI and plug it into their head. On lots of shows there are three or four bands and quick change overs in the dark. I generally try to check it out, but sometimes the switch just happens.

When I ask most kids if they'd mind playing into my DI and then looping to their amp they proudly say "mine's got one built in". When I suggest mine probably sounds better they look confused. If I'm cantankerous, I usually say something like "Your little Fender thing is using a 15cent integrated circuit and just the Jensen transformer alone in this DI is worth more than your whole preamp all together."

They don't like their gear being insulted, especially if their stuff has vinyl peeling away on the corners and was bought from a pawn shop.

If I'm mixing I'll ask to use mine AND theirs.  Very diplomatic. I'd really rather use my DIs and mic their rig than take their feed, but....

Musicians tend to have fragile egos and are prone to superstition.  The less you change his/her world the happier they (and you) will be.  If keeping an XLR plugged into the bass player's head makes him happy while you get what you really need, everybody wins.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

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Patrick Tracy

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Re: built in bass DI's
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2009, 01:51:04 AM »

In my world of limited setup time, small mixers and cramped stages I'll give the built-in DI a shot, first asking if they've had any problems using it at recent gigs. If there's a "pre/post" switch it goes to "pre" every time. If there's an output level it goes to about 3/4, lower if have too much signal at the board and/or I do the XLR-TRS adapter into the line input. Probably 95% of the time the built-in DI works fine with little or no fiddling. If one or two adjustments doesn't get it working I go to an external DI.

Milt Hathaway

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Re: built in bass DI's
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2009, 08:23:34 AM »

Bass amp manufacturers have never been consistent with what you get out that onboard "DI" (if it works at all) so when I get a player who doesn't want me to come straight off the bass I'll use a ProCo DB-1 DI switched to handle speaker level, and I'll come right off the output of the amp.

(One caveat: The speaker cabinet can become a microphone using this technique. Can cause some feedback that is very difficult to find.)

There have been "DI outputs" on bass amps that were destroyed by phantom power, others have no way of lifting the ground. I just avoid them all whenever I can.

However, if a player gives you a SansAmp to plug into, take it.
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Benjamin Wolma

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Re: built in bass DI's
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2009, 11:25:11 AM »

Ditto on the SansAmp.  I've been using my personal unit (I'm a bass player too) lately on a few bands.  I've been having more luck with a E835 on the cab than using built in DI's.  Even high end Ampegs are entirely unreliable when it comes to this.
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Dick Rees

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Re: built in bass DI's
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2009, 11:42:26 AM »

Not that it makes or breaks the deal, but IME 9 out of 10 direct outputs from bass amps have some sort of buzz.  Whether or not it compromises the mix depends on several factors.  If it's live it can be gated out.  If it's for broadcast or if there's any recording being done it can FU the entire project.
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Paul Dershem

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Re: built in bass DI's
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2009, 03:26:02 PM »

I'm a bassist, with a fairly simple signal path; at its most complicated, my signal goes from an X2 wireless receiver into a tuner pedal, followed by a Demeter Compulator compressor pedal, to the input of my bass head, which has an integral DI.

I usually send the "pre" signal from my amp's built-in DI to the mixer instead of using a separate DI box. Were I to use an outboard DI box, where would you prefer to see it in the signal chain?
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Steve Hurt

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Re: built in bass DI's
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2009, 03:54:33 PM »

I prefer the DI to be post effects chain so I can get your sound
However, I prefer for the majority of EQ to happen at the bass rig instead of at the efx processor.
Bass cabinets sound different than PA's and usually need different EQ settings so EQ-ing the bass rig at the amp (after the DI) helps me out at FOH.


As far as amp DI outs, I have had really bad luck with anything that says Ampeg on the front of it.  The Ampegs may work fine when new, but they usually are high mileage by the time I see them and a LOT of them hum, buzz, don't pass full range audio, or don't pass audio at all.

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Nick Enright

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Re: built in bass DI's
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2009, 05:23:00 PM »

I'll agree with Dick and Steve. I never seem to get a bass player with a clean DI on their amp. Even the "top of the line" amps.

I always put the DI last right before the amp.

nick
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Vinny D'Agostino

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Re: built in bass DI's
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2009, 05:38:34 PM »

Being a bass player my answer is a bit biased but I also understand both sides of the argument.
Myself I will always go with the DI out of the amplifier head provided it is a quality piece (which that is a whole nother debate) and I will use the *post* DI setting as long as there are NO drastic EQ adjustments on the head. A major part of a bass players *sound* comes from the preamp in the amplifier (the bulk of a players sound comes from there own hands), running *pre* DI out you don't get the tone from the preamp and that can make a huge difference IMO.
Now, doing sound as I am currently doing I will give any bass player one chance to prove to me that there DI on there amp works well enough for me to use it, if it fails I keep a 25 year old passive IMP2 direct box handy that works like a charm all the time.
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